HQI or mogul?

rscotth · 10-21-2002, 11:01 PM

I have a 55 gal with a few acros that just aren't coloring up under my one 175 watt MH and 330 watts of VHO. I am considering installing dual 175 or 250 watt MH. I am more for the 250 because I hope to get a larger tank soon. Just a few questions:
1. Is there that many benefits to HQI?
2. What are the pros/cons of HQI or Mogul?
3. Do higher wattage bulbs color corals better or just penetrate deeper in the tank?
3. Electonic or PFO ballast?

Any experience or advise is appeciated. Even the best place to purchase the best brands.

Scott
rscotth45@aol.com

**Ninong** · 10-22-2002, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by rscotth:

1. Is there that many benefits to HQI?

I will assume that by HQI you mean double-ended metal halide lamps and answer your question below.

2. What are the pros/cons of HQI or Mogul?

Many people like the color of the two most popular double-ended metal halide lamps that are available: The AB 150w & 250w AB-10000 lamps and the Ushio/BLV 150w & 250w 10,000K lamps. These lamps were tested by Dr. Sanjay Joshi at Penn State and compared very favorably against other lamps. In fact, according to those tests, the double-ended lamps were superior to mogul socket (single ended) lamps of comparable wattage.

Mogul lamps are usually less expensive than double-ended lamps and are easier to DIY. Double-ended lamps must always have a protective UV absorbing shield built into the setup and this complicates DIY projects, especially when one is including VHO actinic supplementation. Most people who choose double-ended lamps get a ready-made fixture of some sort. There are several nice choices available but the price will usually be a little more than comparable DIY mogul lamp setups.

3. Do higher wattage bulbs color corals better or just penetrate deeper in the tank?

Of all the factors that affect SPS coloration, light intensity is the most important. "Higher wattage" is not a good way to determine light intensity. For our purposes, light intensity means the amount of PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) measured in PPFD (photosynthetic photon flux density) that reaches the coral animal. The best example of this is the fact that of the several different 175w mogul base metal halide lamps that Sanjay tested, the best performing lamp produced three times as much PAR as the worst performing lamp. So wattage only measures power consumption and is not a reliable way to estimate light intensity. Also, those same tests showed that a 250w 10,000K double-ended lamp produced more PAR than some of the 400w mogul base lamps tested.

But there is a lot more to it than even that. You will get more PAR from a 400w 6500K Iwasaki mogul base lamp than from any of the 400w 10,000K mogul base lamps because, generally, lower Kelvin rated lamps produce more PAR than higher Kelvin lamps. But you may not care for the appearance of 6500K light in your tank compared to 10,000K light. Some folks even prefer the appearance of 400w 20,000K mogul base lamps. So, even though they are giving up PAR, many people would prefer 10,000K or 20,000K over 6500K.

My personal preference would be for a combination of 10,000K and 20,000K with modest actinic supplementation. This can be quite expensive, however, and difficult to pull off. Most people will make compromises in their lighting preferences due to cost considerations and heat issues.

3. Electonic or PFO ballast?

The advantage of electronic ballasts is that they are much cooler than standard ballasts. It is claimed that they prolong the useful life of the lamp compared to standard ballasts. In some cases they overdrive the lamp compared to standard ballasts, producing more PAR. This may or may not have an effect of the life of the lamp. Electronic ballasts are more expensive than standard ballasts.

If you are looking for a ready-made double-ended lamp fixture, I suggest you consider the AB Aquaspacelight with 250w 10,000K double-ended lamps plus Osram PC actinic supplementation. These are available at www.customaquatic.com If you are looking for a ready-made mogul base lamp fixture, I suggest the PFO-Ice Cap fixtures that can be customized with your choice of metal halide lamps plus VHO or PC actinic supplementation. These are available at places like www.premiumaquatics.com and www.marinedepot2.com

rscotth · 10-22-2002, 01:26 PM

I really appeciate any answer, but a long detailed answer like that deserves an applause. I will have to read it again to fully understand it.

Are HQI cooler running?

Scott

MtnDewMan · 10-23-2002, 08:11 PM

That's a great answer ... well done ...

If you are interested in a photo comparison between a 250W double ended 10000k AB bulb and a 250W single ended 10000k AB bulb both being fired from an HQI ballast, see the picture below (my tank) ... do you notice a difference between left and right? Can you guess which is the double ended bulb? hehe

rscotth · 10-23-2002, 08:26 PM

It looks like the left side of the tank is a fair amount brighter, but it may be in the photography. Can you tell if the HQI bulb is cooler because I do not have a chiller. I have a 175 watt MH on a PFO ballast and It keeps the water about 80 degrees with two 3" Radioshack fans.

Thanks,
Scott

MtnDewMan · 10-23-2002, 08:58 PM

It's really pretty deceiving because of the ledge of coral on the right that creates quite a bit of shadow underneath. It is really very difficult to determine which is on the left and which is on the right. The double ended is on the left and the single ended on the right. I get great growth and coloration from both bulbs. If I were to do it over again, I would likely go single ended, mainly because the bulbs are much cheaper and give me the same basic outcome I am looking for.

***zhenya*** · 10-23-2002, 11:20 PM

Chuck,
I've tried looking with my glasses on and off and to be honest I can hardly tell the difference

All I can see is the darn forrest of acroporas in there

that needs to be pruned.

MtnDewMan · 10-24-2002, 09:14 AM

haha ... sometimes I need my little coral hatchet to get through the thick patches too

JEMichael IV · 12-28-2002, 03:22 AM

MtnDewMan what kind of ballast is firing the single ended 10k HQI bulb? You said it is a HQI ballast but what namebrand?

JEMichael IV · 12-28-2002, 03:27 AM

MtnDewMan what kind of ballast is firing the single ended 10k HQI bulb?

**kevinpo** · 12-28-2002, 08:33 AM

John,
They are both PFO HQI ballasts. I have seen Chuck's tank in person several times and I cannot tell any difference in color or brightness between the bulbs. The AB bulbs burn slightly more blue than the Ushio brand. Chuck still uses actinc VHO's though.

Regards,
Kevin

MtnDewMan · 12-28-2002, 01:23 PM

Thanks Kevin, that is the correct setup ...

I do prefer the AB bulbs over the Ushio, but driven off an HQI ballast, the Ushio is not a bad bulb color-wise.

10-21-2002, 11:01 PM	#1
rscotth Just Moved In Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mobile,AL Posts: 22	HQI or mogul? I have a 55 gal with a few acros that just aren't coloring up under my one 175 watt MH and 330 watts of VHO. I am considering installing dual 175 or 250 watt MH. I am more for the 250 because I hope to get a larger tank soon. Just a few questions: 1. Is there that many benefits to HQI? 2. What are the pros/cons of HQI or Mogul? 3. Do higher wattage bulbs color corals better or just penetrate deeper in the tank? 3. Electonic or PFO ballast? Any experience or advise is appeciated. Even the best place to purchase the best brands. Scott rscotth45@aol.com

10-22-2002, 10:34 AM	#2
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,353	Re: HQI or mogul? Originally posted by rscotth: 1. Is there that many benefits to HQI? I will assume that by HQI you mean double-ended metal halide lamps and answer your question below. 2. What are the pros/cons of HQI or Mogul? Many people like the color of the two most popular double-ended metal halide lamps that are available: The AB 150w & 250w AB-10000 lamps and the Ushio/BLV 150w & 250w 10,000K lamps. These lamps were tested by Dr. Sanjay Joshi at Penn State and compared very favorably against other lamps. In fact, according to those tests, the double-ended lamps were superior to mogul socket (single ended) lamps of comparable wattage. Mogul lamps are usually less expensive than double-ended lamps and are easier to DIY. Double-ended lamps must always have a protective UV absorbing shield built into the setup and this complicates DIY projects, especially when one is including VHO actinic supplementation. Most people who choose double-ended lamps get a ready-made fixture of some sort. There are several nice choices available but the price will usually be a little more than comparable DIY mogul lamp setups. 3. Do higher wattage bulbs color corals better or just penetrate deeper in the tank? Of all the factors that affect SPS coloration, light intensity is the most important. "Higher wattage" is not a good way to determine light intensity. For our purposes, light intensity means the amount of PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) measured in PPFD (photosynthetic photon flux density) that reaches the coral animal. The best example of this is the fact that of the several different 175w mogul base metal halide lamps that Sanjay tested, the best performing lamp produced three times as much PAR as the worst performing lamp. So wattage only measures power consumption and is not a reliable way to estimate light intensity. Also, those same tests showed that a 250w 10,000K double-ended lamp produced more PAR than some of the 400w mogul base lamps tested. But there is a lot more to it than even that. You will get more PAR from a 400w 6500K Iwasaki mogul base lamp than from any of the 400w 10,000K mogul base lamps because, generally, lower Kelvin rated lamps produce more PAR than higher Kelvin lamps. But you may not care for the appearance of 6500K light in your tank compared to 10,000K light. Some folks even prefer the appearance of 400w 20,000K mogul base lamps. So, even though they are giving up PAR, many people would prefer 10,000K or 20,000K over 6500K. My personal preference would be for a combination of 10,000K and 20,000K with modest actinic supplementation. This can be quite expensive, however, and difficult to pull off. Most people will make compromises in their lighting preferences due to cost considerations and heat issues. 3. Electonic or PFO ballast? The advantage of electronic ballasts is that they are much cooler than standard ballasts. It is claimed that they prolong the useful life of the lamp compared to standard ballasts. In some cases they overdrive the lamp compared to standard ballasts, producing more PAR. This may or may not have an effect of the life of the lamp. Electronic ballasts are more expensive than standard ballasts. If you are looking for a ready-made double-ended lamp fixture, I suggest you consider the AB Aquaspacelight with 250w 10,000K double-ended lamps plus Osram PC actinic supplementation. These are available at www.customaquatic.com If you are looking for a ready-made mogul base lamp fixture, I suggest the PFO-Ice Cap fixtures that can be customized with your choice of metal halide lamps plus VHO or PC actinic supplementation. These are available at places like www.premiumaquatics.com and www.marinedepot2.com __________________ Ninong

10-23-2002, 08:11 PM	#4
MtnDewMan Mayor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Mukilteo, WA Posts: 748	That's a great answer ... well done ... If you are interested in a photo comparison between a 250W double ended 10000k AB bulb and a 250W single ended 10000k AB bulb both being fired from an HQI ballast, see the picture below (my tank) ... do you notice a difference between left and right? Can you guess which is the double ended bulb? hehe __________________ MDM My Reef Tank Reef Frontiers

10-23-2002, 08:58 PM	#6
MtnDewMan Mayor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Mukilteo, WA Posts: 748	It's really pretty deceiving because of the ledge of coral on the right that creates quite a bit of shadow underneath. It is really very difficult to determine which is on the left and which is on the right. The double ended is on the left and the single ended on the right. I get great growth and coloration from both bulbs. If I were to do it over again, I would likely go single ended, mainly because the bulbs are much cheaper and give me the same basic outcome I am looking for. __________________ MDM My Reef Tank Reef Frontiers

10-23-2002, 11:20 PM	#7
*zhenya* Owner Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: new jersey,usa Posts: 7,755	Chuck, I've tried looking with my glasses on and off and to be honest I can hardly tell the difference All I can see is the darn forrest of acroporas in there that needs to be pruned. __________________ Kind regards, Gene.

10-22-2002, 01:26 PM	#3
rscotth Just Moved In Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mobile,AL Posts: 22	I really appeciate any answer, but a long detailed answer like that deserves an applause. I will have to read it again to fully understand it. Are HQI cooler running? Scott

10-23-2002, 08:26 PM	#5
rscotth Just Moved In Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mobile,AL Posts: 22	It looks like the left side of the tank is a fair amount brighter, but it may be in the photography. Can you tell if the HQI bulb is cooler because I do not have a chiller. I have a 175 watt MH on a PFO ballast and It keeps the water about 80 degrees with two 3" Radioshack fans. Thanks, Scott

10-24-2002, 09:14 AM	#8
MtnDewMan Mayor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Mukilteo, WA Posts: 748	haha ... sometimes I need my little coral hatchet to get through the thick patches too __________________ MDM My Reef Tank Reef Frontiers

12-28-2002, 03:22 AM	#9
JEMichael IV Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 34	MtnDewMan what kind of ballast is firing the single ended 10k HQI bulb? You said it is a HQI ballast but what namebrand? __________________ John Michael Proud Member of the Rocky Mountain Reef Club --Current Setup-- 172g Oceanic Bowfront plumbed into a 300g and 100g in basement, 3x250w 10k AquaSpacelight on Main Display, 2x250w AquaStarlight on 300g stocktank, 2 Iwaki 100 RLT's for returns plumed into a 100g stocktank sump, Aqua Medic T5000 Dual Skimmer, Aqua Medic T5000 Calcium Reactor, Aqua Controller II Pro, and running Red Sea 250ml Ozone generator.

12-28-2002, 03:27 AM	#10
JEMichael IV Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 34	MtnDewMan what kind of ballast is firing the single ended 10k HQI bulb? __________________ John Michael Proud Member of the Rocky Mountain Reef Club --Current Setup-- 172g Oceanic Bowfront plumbed into a 300g and 100g in basement, 3x250w 10k AquaSpacelight on Main Display, 2x250w AquaStarlight on 300g stocktank, 2 Iwaki 100 RLT's for returns plumed into a 100g stocktank sump, Aqua Medic T5000 Dual Skimmer, Aqua Medic T5000 Calcium Reactor, Aqua Controller II Pro, and running Red Sea 250ml Ozone generator.

12-28-2002, 08:33 AM	#11
kevinpo Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 2,436	John, They are both PFO HQI ballasts. I have seen Chuck's tank in person several times and I cannot tell any difference in color or brightness between the bulbs. The AB bulbs burn slightly more blue than the Ushio brand. Chuck still uses actinc VHO's though. Regards, Kevin __________________ SPSguy On - On

12-28-2002, 01:23 PM	#12
MtnDewMan Mayor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Mukilteo, WA Posts: 748	Thanks Kevin, that is the correct setup ... I do prefer the AB bulbs over the Ushio, but driven off an HQI ballast, the Ushio is not a bad bulb color-wise. __________________ MDM My Reef Tank Reef Frontiers

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