[dag]

Ninong, I noticed you were once puzzling the choices as folows:

Yes, you positively MUST use a tempered glass UV shield with HQI bulbs. I'm not planning a DIY project, I'm looking at two different German fixtures. The first is the Aquaspacelight from www.ab-aqualine.de which is available from Champion Lighting. The 1200mm length (47.25") with 2x250w AB 10000 HQI dbl-ends (actually 13,000K) plus 2x24w Osram 'blue' PCs, with separate controls, runs $909 at Champion.

Did you go with the Aquaspacelight? Are you happy with the choice? Would you do it differently?

I need a fixture for a 200 g 72"x24"x27" with a custom built canopy and stand. It won't be built in the wall but it will be against the wall with a "built-in" look. The tank will be 2" off the wall and no back on the canopy so air can flow behind the tank.

Any suggestions would be appreciated?

[Ninong]

That is a very old post you dug up.

I went with an Aquastarlight Future fixture with two 250w 10,000K HQI DE lamps plus a 25w moonlight on a separate power cord instead of the Aquaspacelight. The only reason I did that is because I lucked out getting a 4' long PC fluorescent fixture FREE that I could use for the actinic supplementation and I decided that the Aquastarlight Future would be a better fit because it is only 8" wide (instead of 12") and it has the built-in moonlight. Otherwise I would have chosen the Aquaspacelight.

I think a 6' long Aquaspacelight with three 250w 10,000K HQI DE lamps plus four 24w Osram PC actinics (on a separate power cord) would be a good choice for your tank. You can always add a separate moonlight or two. AB-Aqualine offers a nice small stand-alone moonlight unit.

P.S. -- I did not purchase anything from Champion Lighting! You might want to check out these guys: http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/index.asp

[dag]

Thanks, ninong. I'll look into your suggestion. Subject to that investigation, I think this is the current plan. Perhaps you would be good enough to give me your thoughts.

200 gallon 72L x 24 W x 27H. I will have clams and SPS corals.

I am having a custom built canopy and stand that will be against
but not built into the wall (but will have a built-in look) set two inches away from the wall, so air can travel behind the tank. So no "back" on the canopy other than the wall. The front 1/3 of the canopy will fold up on piano hinges and fold back on itself. The outside height of the canopy will be 14" high. The canopy will be made out of maple plywood. The inside of the canopy with be painted with white
epoxy.

The fixture will be a Custom Sea Life retrofit kit 3 x 250 Ushio
10000K MH with VHO (actinics?). The fixture is about 71" x 12.5" x 2"
H. The fixture will be hung at least 1" from the underside of the roof
of the canopy, so the bulbs will be about 10" from the top of the tank.

Someone at Champion insists that I need a lens cover, acrylic
plexiglass would be fine, hung 2" beneath the fixture. It seems to me
that this would interfere somewhat with access and may not be convenient to hang. Is it really necessary?

He also believes fans are necessary and that it should be
mounted on one end with a finger guard (is that a filter?) on the other
end for optimal air flow. He thinks that the canopy should have a back
so that together with lens cover the "heated air" is enclosed and kept
away from the water and then sucked out by the fan. If I had to have a fan I would want it mounted in the top of the canopy? Do I need one, and if so, where should it be placed?

So I'm still uncertain over fan location and the lens cover.
Can you illuminate these issues?

Your help is appreciated.

[Ninong]

dag,

A retrofit kit is not a fixture. It's just individual components like sockets, ballasts, bulbs, reflectors, etc. so that you can install everything yourself. What kind of reflectors does it come with?

Most people do use at least two 4" fans for ventilation with a 6' long canopy unless the canopy is almost completely open. If the canopy is mostly enclosed, you will probably need fans. The finger guard he is talking about is just a grill that goes over the outside of the fan so that no one can stick their fingers in the spinning fan. What he is suggesting is that you install one fan to blow the hot air out of the canopy and just a finger guard over an opening at the other end to let cool air in.

It is a good idea to always use a UV filter/splash guard made of either tempered glass or special plexiglass with any metal halide setup. Many hobbyists do not do this but there are reasons why it is a good idea none the less. Yes, it does reduce light transmission by about 15%. If you are considering a DIY setup with double-end metal halides, then the UV shield is mandatory. It is OK to have fans blowing air through a light fixture with mogul base lamps but that is not a good idea with double-end lamps, which is another reason very few people bother to DIY with DE metal halides. With DE lamps, the air cannot blow directly on the bulb itself or it will affect performance.

[dag]

Sorry, the reference to the kit was a slip. It comes fully assembled. I'm not sure what you mean by the kind of reflector. the size is 71" x 12.5 x 2.

My understanding of the fan is that you don't want it blowing air filled with dust and other particles over your tank without being filtered first. If this is the case, how can it be accomplished without the canopy being fully enclosed (I guess to create a suction effect).

what about putting the fans in the top of the canopy?

[Ninong]

It comes fully assembled. I'm not sure what you mean by the kind of reflector. the size is 71" x 12.5 x 2.



I'm afraid you have lost me here. There is no light fixture that includes both metal halides and fluorescent lamps (either VHO or PC) that measures 71" x 12.5" x 2". You say that it is a Custom Sealife fixture. Their 6' fixtures for metal halides and PC fluorescents measure 72" x 13.5" x 7" and their 6' retrofits measure 71" x 12.5" x 5". As far as I know, they do not offer VHO at all, only PC with or without MH.

Here is a link to the Custom Sealife website. Perhaps you can pick out the fixture you are considering: http://www.customsealife.com/index.html

I have never heard about problems with fans blowing dust and other particles over the tank. Many people have tanks that are completely open with no canopy at all. In any case, no matter how you build your lighting setup, if you are planning on using double-end metal halide bulbs, you have to avoid having air blowing directly on the double-end bulbs. And yes, many people put fans in the top of the canopy blowing up.

[dag]

The fixture I had in mind was the top one. I think they have to do something to it to add the VHOs. I'll have to check on the dimensions.

http://www.championlighting.com/e/en...ing/mhact.html

[Ninong]

Yes, that is a picture of a CSL retrofit kit. So I guess you are considering one of those with three 250w 10,000K Ushio mogul base metal halides and two 160w URI VHO SuperActinics for actinic supplementation.

Be sure to add up the total cost, including ballasts, etc. and compare that against other options.

[dag]

I'm satisfied with the price. Do you think that's a good choice?

Any thoughts on the preferred ballasts to use with that?

Are these double ended lamps (for which you previously advised against blowing the air across)?

And, if you bear with me, would it still be your view that this fixture should be used with some kind of lens cover?

Thank comments are very helpful and are appreciated. Thanks.

[Ninong]

Originally posted by dag:

I'm satisfied with the price. Do you think that's a good choice?

No. I do not think that sort of setup is worth the money at all. If you are going to go the DIY route, you should consider better reflectors, such as Spider-lite or the PFO Spider-lite knockoffs. Or you could consider the PFO parallel reflectors that hold metal halides and VHOs. You can take a look at some other reflectors here: http://www.marinedepot.com/ and here: http://www.pfolighting.com/new%20pfoAq/AQFrames.htm

Any thoughts on the preferred ballasts to use with that?

I hate to make ballast recommendations. You could consider PFO ballasts if you want conventional ballasts or you could consider IceCap ballasts if you want electronic ballasts. Or you could check out some of the ballasts from Sunlight Supply. They are a sponsor of this forum but I don't know much about their products.

Are these double ended lamps (for which you previously advised against blowing the air across)?

No, those are single-end mogul base lamps.

And, if you bear with me, would it still be your view that this fixture should be used with some kind of lens cover?

That is a personal choice. Most people do not use a lens cover with DIY mogul base metal halides but it is probably a better idea to use one.

[dag]

No. I do not think that sort of setup is worth the money at all.

I'm sorry, I was not asking whether my satisfaction with the cost was a good choice, rather whether this fixture was a good choice for the intended use as originally described in my first post (e.g. fitting with the canopy and providing quality light for SPS and clams).

By the time I finish purchasing all the components and having someone else put it together (I'm not very handy) the difference in cost won't me material, in my judgment. Not to mention the time, since I am already exhausted by my search for the right lighting.

Thanking you in advance for your response.

[Ninong]

I don't think that particular style reflector is very efficient. It is not something that I would choose.

[dag]

So what if I just get three of these MH fixtures, each separate:

http://hellolights.com/25methalbalk.html

but then what to do about VHOs?

Many have recommended that the VHOs hang lower than the MHs. Do you agree? If so, then the VHO's would not have a reflector?

[dag]

Or is this what you had in mind, the parallel reflector which allows the VHOs to hang lower?

http://www.pfolighting.com/new%20pfoAq/AQFrames.htm

But I don't see one that is 72" long.

[dag]

or maybe these spider lights (three of them?)

http://www.marinedepot.com/a_lt_mh_i...em.asp?CartId=

but again, how do the VHOs get integrated?

[Ninong]

Yes, many people use three Spider-lite reflectors over a 6' long tank and then mount one 160w URI VHO SuperActinic tube in front of them and another in back. The URI VHO fluorescent tubes actually have built-in reflectors but painting the inside of the canopy white is a good idea, too. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that each Spider-lite reflector measures 13"x16"x5" and is mounted perpendicular to the front of the tank. Some people do not have enough room front-to-back over their tanks to accomodate these reflectors. There are other similar reflectors that are only about 12"L instead of 16". It is not difficult to mount the VHO tubes so that they are lower than the metal halides, just use brackets that are several inches long to lower them from the inside of the canopy.

http://www.marinedepot.com/a_lt_mh_s...fo.asp?CartId=


Another possibility is to use parallel reflectors. You will notice that these PFO parallel reflectors accomodate either VHO fluorescent tubes or PC fluorescent tubes on either side of the reflector. Read the product descriptions and it explains this. I know that it is possible to combine two 24" parallel reflectors together to make a 48" long reflector holding two metal halide bulbs plus two 110w VHO tubes but that wouldn't help you over your tank since it is 6' long. I'm not sure if other sizes can be combined or not to cover a 6' tank. You will have to either ask one of the vendors or hope that someone else can answer your question.

http://www.marinedepot.com/a_lt_mh_p...fo.asp?CartId=


Again, with all of these possibilities, be sure to add up the total costs and compare that to other options.

Good luck,

[dag]

I saw Sanjay quoted as follows: "White paint is not a good solution, neither is the flashing from Home Depot. The reflective material should be anodized to prevent corrosion. Using these reflective materials (most of them are the Everbrite by Alcoa) you can easily get 20-40% more light into your tank."

I'm not sure what this is. Do you think it's correct and is it applied like paint?

At least you didn't say, "Good luck, you'll need it"!

[Ninong]

Originally posted by dag:

I saw Sanjay quoted as follows: "White paint is not a good solution, neither is the flashing from Home Depot.

White paint is NOT a substitute for a good reflector, neither is flashing from Home Depot, but the retrofit kit that you are considering is nothing more than a flat piece of aluminum similar to flashing from Home Depot.

The reflective material should be anodized to prevent corrosion. Using these reflective materials (most of them are the Everbrite by Alcoa) you can easily get 20-40% more light into your tank."

I'm not sure what this is. Do you think it's correct and is it applied like paint?

What Sanjay is talking about here is using reflectors that are made of anodized aluminum rather than plain metal or metal that is painted. Anodized aluminum simply means that the finish is an oxide that is electrolytically bonded to the aluminum by making the aluminum an anode.

No, this is not something that is applied like paint. Sanjay is just saying that it is better to use anodized aluminum to make your reflectors rather than plain metal flashing. It is a lot easier to just buy reflectors that somebody else has already made for you.

It is always a good idea to paint the inside of the canopy white in addition to the fact that you are using reflectors. Either use epoxy paint or white enamel with a couple of coats of polyurethane over it.

At least you didn't say, "Good luck, you'll need it"!

You asked for my opinion of the retrofit kit (which you keep calling a fixture) from Champion Lighting. To further confuse the issue, you gave the dimensions wrong so that I had no idea what in the world you could be talking about that was only 2" high. My honest opinion is that it is not something that I would want to buy. Perhaps someone else on the board who has purchased that retrofit kit will pop up and give you their opinion based on their actual experience with it.

You should make up your own mind and buy whatever you feel suits your needs and budget.

[dag]

At least I learned a few things, and you did a good deed. Thanks.

[dag]

Based on your suggestions and further investigation, the lighting solution that offers me the most versatility would be to get the components separately, rather than have them all mounted in a single retrofit/reflector.

I am now considering the following:

Three (3) PFO 15 inch Parallel Reflector with 8 foot cord and mogel base Metal Halide socket. (Powered with the IceCap Model 250-MH-HQI Electronic Ballasts. And using Ushio 250 watt 10,000K screw type mogul socket metal halide bulb.)

Two (2) URI 72 inch VHO Super Actinic Flourescent Light Bulbs (Powered with IceCap's VHO Model 660 electronic fluorescent ballast.)

I guess the VHOs get hung with Endcaps the End Cap Stand Off Mount.

I'm thinking that it's easier to hang the VHOs with these components, but I'm still puzzled how that's done.

The inside dimension of the canopy will be 71" so I'm not sure the 72" bulb w/ the end caps will fit. Maybe I need to go to the 60"?

I think the MHs should be 10" from the top of the tank and the VHOs should be no more than 3". do the the brackets for the VHOs hang from the underside of the roof of the canopy?

do you think this lighting system makes sense?