Strange Excrement from Fish -or- How to be a Super Pooper Snooper

[leebca]

Most of our marine fishes come from the wild. It isn’t unusual for the fish to be carrying a worm infection in its intestinal track. It’s been estimated that up to 30% of the fishes in the wild have some kind of intestinal worm infection. This number can considerably increase as fish are kept in holding tanks along transfer points, where they can ‘share diseases and infections.’

In the wild, this isn’t much of an issue. The fish can find enough food for its own needs and the needs of the worms. The worms of course are taking nutrients away from the fish. But if the intake of nutrients is enough, the fish is happy; the worms are happy. However, I the aquarist, am not happy. I want worms out.

If the fishes are de-wormed (which is very easy to do) the aquarist doesn’t have to worry about the worms taking nutrients away from their fishes.

Unfortunately, it isn’t easy to always tell if a fish has these worms. The symptoms of a worm infestation match other intestinal disorders. Generally though, the symptoms and observations of fishes with intestinal worms include:

Strange feces (stringy, solid lengths, colored wrong, worms in feces, etc.)
Fish eats voraciously but doesn’t seem to gain weight
Fish eats but is losing weight, or seems to be wasting away
Fish eats but is losing coloration and clear marking boundaries
Fish eating habits have changed to picking at foods or it stops eating

Obviously the above set of symptoms can apply to certain other conditions, however, the ‘strange feces’ is the one symptom you’ll come to rely upon most. You have to be a Super Pooper Snooper to ‘sniff out’ the problem. :slap:

I’d like to cover in this post the three most common problems which are indicated by the above symptoms.

The peculiar feces is usually a sign of an intestinal/internal problem. There are three (3) basic possibilities when it comes to an intestinal problem. They are: bacteria, worms, and/or dinoflagellates.

Garlic is not a remedy. It has been suspected of helping in one case of internal parasites. The fish was fed solid chunks of it. Garlic juice does nothing in this case. I can elaborate on this if you want or you can read a thread on that:
Garlic

Knowing how long you’ve had this fish would help in the diagnosis, as well as whether or not you use a quarantine system to verify the fish was healthy before you put it into your display tank. Since I don’t know this information when I wrote this post, I have to assume either possibility and provide how to deal with each.

Whatever the intestinal problem, the fish needs the best water quality and the best diet AND supplements added to its diet. Remember, it’s eating for two or two thousand!

For diet and supplement help, check this out:
Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

If the fish isn’t eating then the only way to get medication to the intestinal track is to put the fish in a quarantine tank and treat the water with chemicals that will kill the internal condition. The drug Praziquantel (a.k.a. Droncit) will treat intestinal worms (see below for other suggestions), Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish will treat an internal bacterial infection and Metronizazole will treat dinoflagellate infections.

To be conservative: I recommend either of two ways forward:
1. If you've had your fish for several months or more: First check your source water for contaminants. Use only the best source water and make up a new batch of salt water. Now check that freshly made up water for quality/contaminants. If it passes, then adjust it for pH, temperature and salinity, mix some more, then do an 80% water change and see if the fish seems to 'perk up' (e.g., starts eating or eats more or swims around more in the open). If the fish definitely perks up then it maybe a combo of water conditions and bacteria. In this case, I'd treat the fish for an internal bacterial infection. Move fish to a hospital/quarantine tank and treat with Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes. Begin with a double dose and continue double dosing what is recommended on the medicine insert. With proper nutrition and water quality, the fish may gain control and conquer the internal infection.

2. If you recently acquired the fish: Treat the fish for worms (using Praziquantel or an alternate noted below) first and if no improvement, treat for dinoflagellates (using a medication containing Metronizazole). You can use a medication that includes both these (see below).

If the fish was fat and eating properly and being fed a proper diet (see above reference), with vitamin and fat supplements, it can live without eating for several weeks, providing all other environmental and water quality conditions are as they should be and the fish isn’t diseased. Praziquantel is best administered orally so if your fish isn't eating, try to get the fish eating.

De-worm all newly acquired fishes with Praziquantel (or one of the given alternative drugs given below) right after acclimation. Acclimation suggestion: It Was Acclimation, I know. . .

Dose Praziquantel (or an alternate drug) as instructed below. Wait 6 days and dose again. This treatment is over!

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Medications:

Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes. Made by Mardel. Contains the antibiotic Minocycline with B complex vitamins (to stimulate appetite). Available at some LFSs, Petco, and on line.

Praziquantel. Praziquantel may be hard to find. But it is available on-line along with other medications at: National Fish Pharmaceuticals, FISH DISEASE . . It is also available on-line from PondRX PondRX - Do you feel the need for speed? - Home. . Unfortunately, the quantity of Praziquantel you need to order as a minimum order may be more than you’ll need in the next few years. It is administered at 23mg per pound of fish, in their normal food. Wait 6 days, then treat again. Verify the 'cure' by observing the faces form/shape.

There is a commercially prepared anti-parasitic pellet food available. It is made by Jungle. The product name is: Anti-Parasite Medicated Fish Food. The active ingredients in this food are levamisole (a stimulant for the fish immune system), Metrodinazole, and Praziquantel. This particular formula will kill a much broader spectrum of intestinal organisms. Also, the product Gel-Tek Ultra Cure PX can be used instead of Praziquantel. The aquarist is looking for a treatment that the fish will swallow (not a water treatment). Another product for use in the de-worming of fish is called Piperazine which can be bought as Pipzine. For any of the alternate products, just follow directions on the medication.

Alternative Meds (overseas). I try to be on the look-out for meds available outside North America. I've recently come across some that are suitable for de-worming. Those aquarists in the UK and Europe may find Fenbendazole or Piperazine more readily available. They are dosed at 250mg/100g of food, fed for 7 to 10 days. Medications containing these will likely come with dosing instructions. Follow label instructions for administering these products.


Metronizazole. Also found in several products. (See above). Follow the directions that come with the medication.


BE THE SUPER POOPER SNOOPER. Watch your fishes’ feces! (This is a hobby? )

[baobao]

What is the name of this Jungle food?
"If the fish isn’t eating then the only way to get medication to the intestinal track is to put the fish in a quarantine tank and treat the water with chemicals that will kill the internal condition. ... Praziquantel (a.k.a. droncit) ... Metronizazole will treat dinoflagellate infections.": - What do you think about tube feeding the fish some Ultra Cure PX with Praziquantel, and Metronizazole? (I ask this question, because you said it is most effective if fish will eat, but the problem is that afflicted fish will rarely eat).

[leebca]

I don't know the name of the Jungle food. Try to Google for it.

I've experimented with force-feeding fishes for other reasons. It doesn't overcome the underlying stresses. The fish will eat when no longer stressed. If the fish is stressed because of disease, that' s a problem with the handling and possibly the aquarist not implementing good quarantine and treatment procedures. So, I don't think of force feeding as a means to recover from a less-than-average handling/quarantine process. That is. . .If they are begun right, they will live right.

Praziquantel can be administered in hospital tank water.

[SilentlyScreaming]

leebca, great post, thanks. Might you be interested in allowing me to use that post as an article on my site Articles on Fish & Aquariums? Fair enough if not, just wondered if you might be interested? Happy to include full credit/links etc.

[leebca]

With credits and original refs that is okay. You may want to wait 36 hours. I have come across some other chemicals used primarily in Europe that I will add to the post within the next 36 hours from this post.

[SilentlyScreaming]

wonderful, thanks for the speedy reply. I'l wait to hear more...

[leebca]

It's been updated.

[SilentlyScreaming]

Thanks, sorry for the delay in my response, didn't seem to get an e-mail notification of a new reply to this thread.
Will PM you with details when I have a draft of how it will look in-situ on the website, it won't go public until you approve, of course...

[Reefland]

Please make sure to post a link to this thread in your article.

[SilentlyScreaming]

>>Reefland - have done
>>Lee - you have (via the forum) an e-mail with some details in it.

[SilentlyScreaming]

All done, it can be seen at this link. I've included a link to here. If for some reason the URL ever changes to this thread (forum software upgrade etc.), could someone PM me, so I can update the article?
Once again, thanks to Lee for a wonderful post, and if anyone comes across a post they think is as good, let me know.

[berkdog]

Do you have another link or summary of the main 3 problems? the link above is dead: http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...nfections.html

Thanks for sharing this information! Studying this is helpful

[leebca]

Thanks for that catch berkdog. I have removed the now defunct reference. I have no other readily available, however it doesn't detract from the diagnosis and treatment.