[charlie]

Great article Lee!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can we post up our own recipes and have you give them a critique? I think it would be an interesting thread.

[smidoid]

Originally Posted by charlie

Great article Lee!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can we post up our own recipes and have you give them a critique? I think it would be an interesting thread.

Ahmen to that. I don't have any recepies, but I'm keen to learn new ones!

[charlie]

Well OK, here's mine:
This is actually the same recipe as Kevin gave me.
20 cubes frozen formula one cubes
1/4 pkg. (red or brown) seaweed selects
1/4 cup freeze dried plankton
3-4 frozen shrimp-chopped
1 tbsp. crushed garlic

Have at it anybody. My guys have been munching on this from the start.

[smidoid]

"The fish look great, but hell, have you smelt their breath lately!"

can you be more specific about the cubes (what they are, we don't get the same stuff here) and how you mix and store your preps?

Cheers,

[smidoid]

Best to move the replies too. ;-) Or delete them. They look a bit odd out of context.

If it's good for US fish, it's good for UK fish and vice-versa. I'm pretty sure you guys are ahead of us simply because there a more, well fish, to feed there.

[leebca]

There is some confusion about the quantities. I standardize the quantities of what I'm adding by being specific about weight or ratio. For instance, I would list the ounces involved in each ingredient (or list the number of parts the ingredient has in the overall formula).

When you write Charlie that you are using 1/4 package of Seaweed Selects, it comes to mind what size package you are thinking about. Since SS comes in different sized packages and I can buy it in bulk, too.

From the relative ratio of ingredients, if I guess at their weights, I'd say you were feeding a carnivore fish that wouldn't mind a little vegetable in its diet. The food is not optimized for a true carnivore. The food is not optimal for an omnivore, and definitely not appropriate for a herbivore. So what fish are you trying to target with this food?

The shrimp you list, is that whole shrimp or shrimp tails? There is a significant difference in nutritional value. Most meat eaters don't seek out and eat shrimp tails -- they eat the whole shrimp. When they can, they eat the guts, brains, eyes, leg tissue, etc., etc.

It's fun to make your own foods, but if you go to the trouble, you want to take the opportunity to put in supplements like at least one (if not two) vitamin supplements, and at least one fat supplement.

It's a good start.

[charlie]

Thanx Lee, appreciate it!

[leebca]

I make my food formula and when done, add a kelp (agar agar) gelatin to bind it. Into the freezer and then removed as I need it. I either cut it up into pieces or thaw it (it shoud be rubbery) and grate it like you do cheese.

[charlie]

My fish list is in my aquarium log Lee. I use the 20g size seaweed selects. I just use the frozen shrimp that you buy in the bag at the store, and chop them up pretty fine. I mash the you know what out of the cubes and then add the rest. So far, everything has been real happy with it, as I have had most of my fish for the duration that the tank has been up.

[charlie]

Ok, I know that you listed vitamins in the other thread, but what do you suggest that I add????

[leebca]

Take a step back Charlie.

Looking over your list of fishes you have carnivores, omnivores and herbivores. The one food you serve is not good for them all. You really need to make no less than two formulas. One should stress carnivore; and the other should stress herbivore. (The omnivores will do fine feeding on both).

On the herbivore formula, I'd remove the shrimp and add:
spirulina (less than 5% by weight)
1/2 part Kelp powder, and
Cyclopeze

For vitamin and fats, any I've listed is good.

On the carnivore side you have a lot to add:
1/8 part spirulina
Cyclopeze
Whole Saltwater Mysis
Whole Krill
Scallop and maybe either
Silversides or dried anchovies

[charlie]

I really don't know why you are telling me to take a step back, all I wanted was your advice
I'm more than willing to follow that advice.
Where does one find Kelp powder? All the other stuff is fairly readily available either online or elsewhere, but I have never heard of kelp powder.

TIA

[leebca]

Sorry Charlie. By 'step back' I only meant to take in the bigger picture, meaning the kinds of fishes you're trying to feed. Poor phraseology on my part. I didn't intend anything else by that statement. Okay? No offense or dissatisfaction on my part intended.

Kelp powder is also available on line. I have used the following source most recently. They call it Kelp Meal:
Florida Aqua Farms https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi

Almost any aquaculture supply company should carry this or a similar product. Mix and match. Actually, aquaculture supply companies are a fairly good source of fish foods. It's just that you have to 'scale down' and sometimes 'adjust' their intent. Their goal is to put weight on fish as fast as possible, because the fish farmers get paid by the pound. Our interests however, are in long-term fish health.

You can use your own macro algae if you have any growing in your refugium.

You can get some dried Ulva and macro algaes from Indo-Pacific Sea Farms. They call it their 'Nori.'

[charlie]

Thanx, I will look into that. I have always heard that you shouldn't use your own macro because you would be just throwing nutrients back into the tank that you had already removed. I know my Naso sure appreciates a little chaeto every now and then. I don't do that real often tho.

[BubbaWPB]

Originally Posted by leebca

You can get some dried Ulva and macro algaes from Indo-Pacific Sea Farms. They call it their 'Nori.'

OOOOHHHH! I thought they were selling regular nori! I didn't know it was their blend! My tangs really love their red algae and the ulva, too.... Now I have to order some!

[leebca]

That '. . .don't use your own macro. . .' is a bit of misunderstanding of the whole nutrient chain. I'm amazed sometimes how the rumor not only got started, but is still quite supported.

When you add algae to your foods and you put those foods into your tank you are actually adding the same nutrients that you would have added if you used your own macro. Think about it. No difference. The algae you buy is like the algae in your tank.

Another perspective. If it was totally true about tank macro algae not good for your herbivores or going back into the tank, what about all the algae they are eating and cropping down to invisibility on a daily basis in your tank? It's an on-going nutrient chain.

The fish will take that macro or the store-bought algae and turn some of it into tissues, blood, muscle, etc. The rest goes through, regardless of the original source.

Don't hesitate to use your own macro. It's fresh and alive and one of the few things you can save some money on and you don't have to freeze it, or worry about having to quarantine it.

I have put bowling ball sizes of it in my 300g full of tangs. I'm lucky to get my hand out in time!

[charlie]

Hey, I can understand bowling balls!!!!

[leebca]

Bubba,

I don't know why they decided to call it 'Nori.' Maybe they thought people would identify with what that was supposed to mean? I buy it in their three-bag offer.

[charlie]

OK, I have those 2 sites bookmarked and ID'd. Now do you have a suggestion as far as how much I should use in my recipe?
Or as you stated, what should the portions be for the 2 recipes.

[leebca]

Okay.

Roughly, the quantities are as follows. You can scale up or down to control the final volume that will last you no more than 3 months:

Carnivore/Omnivore
Quantity . . . Ingredient
20 each. . .Cubes of Formula 1 (if you still want to use this for the gel)
3 each. . . .Shrimp tails or whole squid or shucked scallop (blended to a liquid)
3 oz. . . . . .Frozen Plankton
3 oz. . . . . .Frozen Krill
1 oz. . . . . .Frozen Saltwater Mysis
1 oz. . . . . .Cyclopeze (frozen)
1 teasp. . . Spirulina powder
1/4 teasp. .Vitamin supplement
1/4 teasp. .Fat supplement

Herbivore/Omnivore
20 cubes. . .Formula 2 (if you still want cubes)
5% wt. . . . Spirulina powder
1 oz. . . . . .Kelp Meal powder
1 oz. . . . . .Cyclopeze (frozen)
2 oz. . . . . .Macro algae - dried (different colors, but mostly green) 10 oz if wet
2 oz. . . . . .of the above Carnivore food recipe
1/4 teasp. . Vitamin supplement
1/4 teasp. . Fat supplement


Everything is blended in a blender to a liquid state, then you add the Vitamin and Fat supplements. But, I'm unsure of how the cubes will affect the outcome. Generally, I warm the mixture and add plain agar-agar gelatin to the mix. I test it, then if right, freeze in freezer bags in thin sheets. Others freeze in tiny cubes (you can use the plastic cube tray the cubes come in or go to a 99 cent store and buy the ice cube trays for tiny cubes).

If you make a soup out of it, you'll probably prefer to have/use a binder. In that case, you could skip the cubes and add some Formula 1 or 2 (where appropriate) pellets or flake into the blender. Then you do the binder step.

There are many creative substitutes or additions that go along with the above two types. Each time you make it, substitute different things for the whole organisms.

Since different fish have different likes/dislikes, it would be best to make small quantities of each to test it out. If some or all refuse it, start in on some substitutes for the meaty foods.

Have fun!