[poopsko24]

Lee, I was hoping you could chime in here.... I have a PB tang that I've had for about 1 1/2 years. In the last couple months it has gotten these little white, pimple looking marks on his body. Nothing on the fins or gills. I'm not too sure to jump in and say it is ich. No other fish in the system (wrasses, anthias) have anything similar. The tang is eating fine and acting normal, he's NOT scratching or anything like that. I don't think these spots seem to ever move, but there was one day where he looked like he did'nt have any at all. There is also a blemish on one of the sides of his body, probley just there from when I drained the tank and him swimming away from my net. I recentlly drained my reef to drill it for a smaller internal overflow, tank is 170 custom. So I have him in a QT tank right now with furan 2 in there with him. I want to get this off him , what do you think ? I'll try pics, but my camera sucks.

[leebca]

WELCOME TO REEFLAND !

I'm glad you posted.

It's hard to help with a definitive answer based on your description. So I'm going to have to get a bit picky here with questions.

Can you give me an idea of the size and shape of the spots? About the size and shape of a sesame seed? Round? Size in mm?

Are they 'bright white' or off white or transleucent in nature?

Are they raised off the surface of the fish, or do you think they are below the mucous layer?

Besides the drilling and equipment modification, what else if anything have you added or taken out of the aquarium for these last 8 weeks?

What livestock have you added, if any, to the tank these last 2 months?

After the answers to the above questions, and getting a photo, I think we can zero in on what is most likely happening.

[poopsko24]

ok Lee, i've got some crapy pics. The spots are more noticable more on different days. Myself and my friends don't think it is ich. Hes had the spots for like 2 months now, so I think if it were ich he would be gone. Before he was the only fish in the tank, for over a year. Then slowly in the last 5 months I've added 6 lyretail anthias, and 3 fairy wrasses. Those all were QT'd , and I've of course added some corals, but I usually dont' QT them for more that a few days. It all seemed to start when I added a orange tree sponge, which I have take out ( I did'nt QT that, and I was mad at myself for that) But here are some pics, I've already treated with furan2. Not treating with anything now. I have him in a 20 gallon acrylic QT. sallinity is like .024. Eats very well, dose'nt seem to like the small tank. Also take a look at the rear of him, that darker looking scratch, it may be and injury from when I was removing him, but I'm not for certain on that. Remember I've had him for like 2 years. sorry about the delay Lee, and thanx.

[poopsko24]

heres a few more:

[leebca]

Pictures aren't bad. Could be better, but not bad (except for the out-of-focus one )

It's hard to tell for sure from photographs, but since you provided as many as you did, I'd say your fish has got a color loss going for it. The black face should not be that light. The tail black markings should be deep black. The black portions of this fish are more grey than black.

Although the fish is eating well as you say, it isn't getting the nutrients it needs. Rather than go through the proper feeds and nutrients, you might to read the long post here:
Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

Make sure (as the above post recommends) you are daily feeding vitamins and fats and beta glucan. The beta glucan is temporary while the fish is getting back to its old self. Beta glucan is found at the (human) health food stores and is the same people take.

I don't see for certain where the spots are menacing. Please be certain your water quality is where it should be. What is the pH of the display? of the QT? What pH do you normally run?

The Furan-2 (IF formulated for saltwater fish) would be a primary remedy for a bacterial infection. I don't see any symptoms of a problem with bacteria.

Have you performed a freshwater dip on this fish since the spots have shown up? The spots are not clearly indicative of any disease organism I have seen before, but we can eliminate the possibility of a surface parasite with two approaches. The first is to give the fish a freshwater dip. The next would be to treat with a medication containing an organophosphate ingredient (like Clout or Fluke Tabs for saltwater fish). Between one or the other approach, any surface parasite of the non Marine Ich or Marine Velvet type will likely be killed.

If you would like to try the freshwater dip, I would follow these guidelines and try to keep the fish in the bath water for 30 minutes:
Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes

Check the bath water closely for anything that may have come off the fish. If you're sure nothing has come off, proceed to treat with a medication containing organophosphate.

But whatever, please see to it that the fish is getting proper nutrition with additional vitamins and fat supplements.

[poopsko24]

Lee, I think that the color loss is just because the fish is stressed in QT. He did not have that color in the display. He was my pride and joy, all my friends said that is the best looking PB tang they have ever seen. Was very rich in color, and I'm assuming he'll return to that when I put him in the reef again. Lee I follow youre fish feeding thread alot. Remember I urged it to be a sticky on RC............ Anyway, my reef tank had prime conditions when he was in there. The QT is up on quality as far as a QT tank goes. Lee, do you agree that it is'nt ich if its been going on for this long, and no other fish caught it. I've seen ich before, and this dose'nt follow anything like it, other than he has white little bumps under the skin, not any on his fins really. Should I do some formilian dips ?

On sort of the same note, let me pick youre brain on this one. I have to make a choice between which tanks to put this PB tang in and a purple tang. I have two tanks, and two tangs. 1st is my reef tank, 170 (54" L x 30" W x 24" T ) current fish are 6 lyretail anthias, lineatus wrasse, pink margin, solaris, yellow flanked wrasse, labouti wrasse, and a pair of per. clownfish. My other tank is my FOWLR, standard 180, fish are- queen angel, emperor angel, dogface puffer, desjardini tang(3") , small clown trigger.
Would the PB and purple get along fine in the reef and be happy if that is the last of the fish I were going to add to it ? The purple is smaller that the PB. PB is like 4" and purple is 2 1/2" - 3" Or put one in the fowlr and one in the reef ?

[poopsko24]

Lee if you look at the top left pic, you can see on his yellow dorsal fin the bumps I'm talking about, just barley.

[leebca]

Okay. I'll set nutrition aside. I hope though that during all this you have been using beta glucan, though. Right?

You know I saw the bumps on the dorsal fin (and a couple of other fin areas), but your original post said that the spots you were speaking about only appeared on the body of the fish, not on the fins or gills. So even though I saw those, I was more intent on finding spots on the fish's body.

Anyway, that is not Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) for sure. Not only the time factor, but their appearance doesn't match any stage of the disease I am familiar with.

If we're now talking about the bumps on the fins, I cannot see clearly if they are on the surface or embedded. You say they appear to be embedded to you. If you agree with this, that they are indeed clearly embedded to your eye, then a freshwater dip will likely have little effect or only a partial effect. The best would be a formalin treatment according to this article:
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/...nd_or_foe.html

Like the above author says, a formalin treatment can be very effective when done properly, or deadly when not done properly. Don't feed the fish for at least 24 hours before beginning the process and watch all the conditions mentioned in the article.

This fish likes a high-end pH. I hope you're keeping the pH between 8.3 and 8.4

-------

Regarding your second issue. . .I'm concerned a bit about how the Desjardini would react to new tangs. The Desjardini can be (surprisingly) mean to newcomer tangs. Since the Desjardini is on the medium size side, then I wouldn't want to put the two tangs in with it. Although I will admit that, if the Desjardini wasn't there, the longer tank is better for both the tangs.

Is it an option to move the Desjardini into the 170g and put the two other tangs into the 180? My second choice would be to put the PBT in the 180 together with the Desjardini, and the purple in the 170 sans other tangs.

My reasoning on the second choice is this. Keeping in mind that I don't know the personality of your PBT as well as you do, most PBTs will hold their own coming into a tank with an established Desjardini tang that is smaller then they are. But I think the Purple Tang will not face down the Desjardini with much success. Putting the Desjardini in the 170 would be better than putting two fishes in with the establish clown pair. The clown pair can be very ruthless to one, much less two newcomers. Even so, the Desjardini might have some difficulty with the clowns, but may just hold its own.

On the first choice, the two tangs (PBT and Purple) will probably get along together considering the size differential AND the fact that they will be put into the tank at the same time (I'm assuming you plan on putting them in at the same time).

Just one opinion.

PBTs are not the docile, delicate creatures their markings and coloration might lead us to believe. I had a PBT established in a tank and like is recommended, put in as my last fish, a Sohal about 2" longer than the PBT. To my surprise the PBT attacked the Sohal and ran it hourly into a corner. I was actually afraid for the Sohal. Two days of this, and I was wondering what to do. It was my first Sohal and I was told they were 'mean' and 'had an attitude' but this one was cowering in front of my PBT 2" shorter! Then on one occasion while I was watching, the Sohal twisted its body and 'slapped' its tail against the PBT. The PBT was 'tossed' 8" away from the Sohal. The PBT retreated in terror. The PBT never bothered the Sohal after that, and the Sohal never bothered the PBT. As predicted the Sohal ruled the tank.