Why Quit the Hobby?

[leebca]

People 'throw them away' all the time, even while in the hobby. This is done through failure to quarantine, failure to provide proper foods, failure to provide a proper environment, and acquiring fishes they couldn't possibly expect to live in captivity. Probably the worse scenario is just letting their fish remain sick or infected with Marine Ich and struggling to survive, rather than thrive. Thus, fish are thrown away even by the so-called hobbyists.

Maybe you can be different -- I hope.

[reefhead728]

This is a tuff hobby, out of everything i do as what people call a hobby this is the only one that effects aniamls (besides hunting and fishing). And if i added all the money on motorcycle parts and car parts i know iv spent more time and money in saltwater aquariums. I have been one of those that have crashed a tank and flushed money down the toilet. With 5 years in this hobby i only count 3 of those as enjoying it. Some people never enjoy it becouse they never seek the knowledge to.

[TheMarineGuy]

I'm 25 and have been here for a while. I found this forum because I was interested in the hobby but had been given loads of horrible advice. My first setup was pathetic and I hope that some of the mods here are proud of the progress that I've made. I have put a lot of money into it and a lot of time doing research and learning the hard way. I never wanted to quit because I knew it was possible and when I want something I devote myself to it. Every time someone sees one of my systems they immediately want it that is until the conversation steers toward the costs and time that has to be put in. To be honest I don't have a single friend who's my age that is responsible or financially stable enough to even think about entering this hobby or lifestyle depending on how you look at it. I wanted to dedicate the time and money to do this right and it has paid off for me. To my friends however the cost of a protein skimmer = a lot of beers or whatever so understandably they have their priorities and I have mine. I've said it before but this website was the best thing that could have happened to me from a learning standpoint. I completely understand how someone could get in over their head quick because it has happened to me. Education and research is key and if someone can't afford the equipment or doesn't have the time or maturity to do things correctly I have no problem saying that they should find another hobby. It doesn't bother me that the typical age is around 40 or so because there is a level of maturity and stability that needs to be present that a lot of other hobbies don't require.

Boy o Boy i think you said it the best it can be said samper...I do belive im the youngest in my town maintaining a reef....jus cuz we only have 2 LFS and ones not really a fish store its petco (every petco i enter most about 80% of the livestock has ich) and the other has been telling me im the only one who has been really buying saltwater supplies beside the school.....i do belive it is a lack of maturaity and patience is a big role player in quitting...a big part too is lack of education....i have too tell this story...one day i was in the LFS and a older lady and what looked like her son was having the employee
bag up a toby puffer,when he came back too write the price and product number on the bag he asked what kind of fish is in the tank the toby would be going into she said a couple of catfish and a suckerfish......i must say i looked at the guy a we both put on a froney face and started laughing at least i was....it really just hit me then some people are really un-educated in the most crazyist ways....

[Kamel]

First wanted to say I realize this thread is old, but I have some things to get off my chest as I'm beginning to feel passionate about this subject. I think it's an absolute disgrace the disservice so many people have done to this hobby and it's my goal to offset that, even if it's just a little.

Lack of honesty and lack of knowledge equate to conflicting ideas. I think conflicting ideas are a very important distinction between the saltwater hobby and other hobby's I've been involved with. You might think of me as an avid hobbyist, as I've had countless hobbies over the years. None come even a in the same ballpark as the saltwater aquarium hobby when it comes to conflicting points of views.

The one in second place (by a looong shot), would be Linux. Linux has numerous points of views, very conflicting and even sometimes resulting in an all out bashing of "holy wars" against one another trying to prove their point. The difference is though, they present both ways with logical reasons, both sides being true, and leave the decision part entirely up to the individual. Ask what Linux is best at, ask if it's most secure, ask if it's the easiest, ask how it compares to windows... you will get a VERY vivid response. What you wont find much of, though, are people saying things that are all out wrong and stupid. The community prunes itself of these things quite well. The saltwater aquarium hobby does NOT do this well enough.

On the contrary, the saltwater aquarium hobby requires an immense amount of research and understanding. When you take into account that sometimes up to 90% of what your research is in conflict with itself without much explanation or anecdotal information as to WHY one way is superior, you're left trying to figure it all out yourself and as we all know this isn't necessarily a good idea when it comes to the life of your aquatic friends.

I've heard all areas of the gamut with all areas of the saltwater aquarium. From "you don't need to do water changes if you keep your parameters in check" to "you need to change 20% of your water weekly". From "the only method to keep a stable tank is with a deep sand bed as it buffers the PH while dissolving and is a nutrient sink" to "bare bottom tanks are the only way to go, it is the only way you can get the amount of flow in your tank similar to nature". From "ich happens to all fish when they get stressed, it's like hives" to "ich is a parasite and is impossible to contract unless it exists in the water". From "you must use 2-3lbs of live rock per gallon of your tank" to "you can put as much or as little live rock as you want" to even "you shouldn't put much live rock in your tank because the fish will not have enough room to swim". From "I've never seen a flame angel harm any coral" to "flame angels are never reef safe, all of them will get a taste for your coral it's just a matter of time". From "you must run a skimmer that's rated for 3x your tanks capacity for proper skimming" to "you don't need a skimmer, just regular water changes or *insert miracle cure such as algae tank scrubber/refugium here* or even better, "you should only run your skimmer sometimes or it will take out too much".

I could honestly go on for hours with these comparisons, but the sad part is, I didn't have to think hard at all for these and they are all REAL EXAMPLES of what I've been told at one point or another. Many times the outlandish comments have been in particular from LFS owners and friends of the hobby for 10+ years.

I could elaborate even more, but I am quite positive this is the true reason why so few people get into this hobby. It's hard, sure, but we make it WAY harder than it has to be.

It's due to this that it is our obligation to correct people when they say idiotic things. It's not rude, it's for the better good of the hobby. People who are linux enthusiasts can be complete a*holes, but it creates a very self correcting hobby which is what this hobby needs to work towards. Don't get me wrong, not saying we need to all be rude and unappealing/unwelcoming to outsiders, the complete opposite actually. A newbie has a justified reason for not knowing. There's no excuse when people who have been doing this 5+ years are saying retarded things.

[SPasse]

Kamel,

I would like to answer that strong opinions do abound in other hobbies, just as strong and perhaps as contrary as exists in the SW/Reef hobby. I shall offer a few examples that I am directly familiar with.

I have been an avid motorcyclist for around 35 years. The Brand divisions that occur around say Honda vs. Harley vs. BMW are just as heated, opinionated and illogical as any that go on in the Reef/SW hobby.

I am also a Senior Solutions Architect and get to arbitrate the Windows vs. Unix/Linux vs. Apple OSX (admittedly a flavor of Unix) etc. debates on a reoccurring basis. My company has hundreds of platforms (server & desktop) and the religion and illogic around these discussions never ceases to amaze me. My 1st programming involved punch cards so I have worked with just about all of the operating systems.

Now on the subject of Reef & SW systems. You talk about the various methodologies like there really is “one” magic path. (There is not)

Again, when I started keeping SW tanks (Reef tanks were largely unknown) “state of the art” was an under gravel filter with a couple inches of crushed coral on top of it. I was able to keep the typical (hardy) fish using those (by today’s standards) primitive equipment.

Similarly, I have had success with bare bottom (Berlin) DSB, macro algae filtration, skimmed, unskimmed and some hybrid mixes of these methods.

Water changes is again one of those concepts that people have a large range of successful experience with although a certain amount water change out is pretty universally “appreciated”.

I guess I would say that this hobby is manageable with a range of techniques and that what works best for some does not work as well for others.

I do agree that research is always a good thing, especially in this hobby.

Regards,

Scott

[Kamel]

I'd have to gently disagree with you. Not in the way that I'm upset with your position, I respect it as I respect all people's opinions, but just disagree with it.

While I do not think there is one right way of keeping fish, I do know there are many wrong ways to do it. I also know that many times the consequences are actual living creatures dying or in essence being tortured without us even realizing. It's when this along with financial and time investment all cultivate together that I think the importance of good, or at least well understood information is crucially necessary.

When it comes to operating systems or it comes to motorcycles, that truly is a matter of taste and how much you want to invest or how dumb you want to be. Those arguments do not bother me. When the life and happiness of a living thing is at stake, I believe more care should be put into deciding.

As a matter of fact, I would even venture to say the problem with this hobby is MORE so the people who think a certain way is the only way to do something. There are measurable things in this hobby you will find out, but it takes a very open minded and observative person to discover these things just by trial and error. Otherwise, you need to resort back to scientific explanations and studies. There aren't enough of these done in the hobby, and if there are, they need to be more accessible because finding them is no easy chore.

At the end of the day, the important thing is to fully understand the subject you're learning about. Not just know it, but know all of the alternatives, and all of the pros and cons of each. This will leave you with a well rounded education on the subject so that you can make the judgment call as to what you want to do. After you've made that call, you get to reap the results of those decisions, be it good or bad. The problem tends to be people often don't know what the results of doing different things are going to be, or the good or bad results are way over emphasized.

[leebca]

You both have good insights into the hobby. As Kamel points out, the real bottom line to me is how much the new hobbyists is willing to learn and get to know the options that are available, how those options will fit their lifestyle and budget, and how much time they will devote to the hobby. Most fall into one or more of these groups.

Those who don't or won't learn either quit or keep on killing marine life. They may have been misled, but they have not explored or have not been aware they should explore other sources for information.

Those who haven't thought through the options and how it will work into their lifestyle, will usually quit at some time in the near future.

There are still those who see the aquariums up and running and are very much enthused, but don't understand the ongoing costs and expenses after the initial setup. They usually fail at attempting a 'minimalist' approach.

Those who don't understand that, taking in a life into the home, even a fish, will require a certain amount of ongoing, uninterrupted attention and care, may stop when they get tired of the routine.