[leebca]

Anthony Calfo reports that of the people entering the marine aquarium hobby, that a large majority of them give up within 18 months.

Why do you think they are quitting?

[wozza]

they dont do enough research and end up killing everything they buy??

[smidoid]

Originally Posted by wozza

they dont do enough research and end up killing everything they buy??

Additionally, I don't think that the vast majority of LFSs help. Mine vary from the sublime to the crap (even within the store). They exist to make money, not to help us. I agree that most people need educating, but the very people who are best placed to do the educating are the ones most lilkely to lose money in the short term by discouraging would-be hobbyists.

My tank was fallow (even empty) for months before I put a single organism in there, but I was lucky enough to be broke (and a former freshwater hobbyist). Had things been different (a newbie with ready cash) then I would have killed loads of things and quit in short order.

[wozza]

Additionally, I don't think that the vast majority of LFSs help.

i agree, i have 4 LFS around me, luckly for me each of them apart from one has at least one employie who knows there stuff.
but the one that doesnt told me rubbish info when i very first started freshwater the sold me 2, 3 inch silver sharks and 3 inch red tail shark along with a tiny 2.5 gal tank and told me this was fine for the fish, i got it home and put it all together after about a week the red tail was chaseing the silver around like crazy i look them all up on the net and found out that the red tail is aggressive and get 20cm and the silver are docile and get up to 30cm.
my tank at the time was only 30cm
dam LFS's

[leebca]

Good points all.

Wozza & smidoid - It's a kind of disillusionment. Would-be hobbyists see attractive and fascinating reef/marine fish setups and they want one. After bad or deficient advice and many $$$ (Pounds) later, and the guilt of killing off so many lifeforms, I think their experience puts them off.

Does anyone think that the new hobbyist is quiting because a lack of patience? Not from lack of knowledge or bad advice -- just not wanting to wait any longer? Smidoid touched on this aspect.

[smidoid]

Lee, I can say that my wife is typica of the "impatience" syndrome. It's hard to see a tank sitting fallow in the corner of a room with just a load of water a tens of pounds of boring LR. Even after I caved in (a couple of months maturing) and got a couple of FPCs, she still wasn't happy. A couple of months later on and we've added a Royal Gramma and a tiny wrasse... and guess what, she still wants more! Fortunately, the dude at one of the LFS pointed out we have slight Ph problem and a slightly high Nitrate (due to the NNR that I'm using not up to full speed yet) so she's had here wings clipped.

It's probably a combination of things, but maturity is a prime one. Unlike basic freshwater tropical where you can dodge most bullets, marine is a LONG old wait... rather like watching paint dry.


Education is a good starting point, but at the end of the day, you can't really "teach" patience. It's just a matter of some have it, others don't.

[vaporize]

I agreed that alot of LFS out there are always trying to sell you products instead of helping and people ended up spending alot of money without learning alot of the required details. Like a LFS, everytime I go in they ask me how my tank is doing and then try to diagnoise your problems by selling you this and that. don't really feel too comfortable answering that question at all

On the other hand, alot of people just want to hear a quick fix to their problems. "So my corlas are not opening, low ph" --> LFS advice, add this buffer to iincrease the pH. But without spending the time on understand the basics, that pH is low because they add calcium all the time without increasing alk causing the buffering capability to decrease. etc...

I guess there is always a balance between how much you willing to learn to become great fish keeper and an average aquarium watcher.

** so I went into a LFS today and a customer's asking the LFS person why his new angel fish is swiming into the current for a few days, then hides in the rock and die. The LFS person told him that it's because angels love to swim into current. My immediate thought is that, come on, anybody that know about parasites know that it is a common symptom of breathing problem. Oh well, enough vent.

[Frag Hag]

I think it's a combination of things - lack of education/experience, the money pit factor, maintenance, the inflexibility of the hobby when you travel (assuming you can still afford vacations and the hobby).

Another contributing problem could be a spouse, significant other, or honey that does not understand, or support your "habit".

Added to the list a sometimes hairline balance between a healthy tank and disaster, and you can pretty well stick the fork in it for some.

[r0bin]

I think lack of quarantine contributes. I once lost all my fish and tour down my tank b.c of it. If I had QT then it would not have happened, but honestly then I didn't know enough too QT.

[leebca]

r0bin. Why didn't you know more about quarantine? Can you say how that missed you? Was it the LFS that didn't mention it? A book that didn't say it? or ?

Thanks for posting.

[r0bin]

Yes I think the intial book I bought may have touched on it, as being a "good idea," but being from freshwater I had never QT'd and just thought it wasn't important. Also the LFS never mentioned it as being important at all. Most of the time if you mention it, its like ooo yeaaa thats a good idea, like you are telling them something.

[zhenya]

Lee,

Did Anthony mentions age group that decides to abandon the hobby by chance?
I agree with everyone that many factors are at play here. Many times people start with marine aquariums when they first seen one at the store, or a friends house( Like Lee had mentioned already). Then they realise it was just a passing fancy and sell off everythig at the loss because it takes lots of work and lots of above mentioned patience.

Having said all that, though, I think there is a whole lot of information available, both online and in print, so education shouldn't be an issue if one is willing to learn.

This is not hot news and been a fact of this hobby for a while. Personally,I think lots of people quit when they realise that this hobby can be a serious money pit and it's either divorse or quit the hobby.

[Reefland]

Money pit is probably the largest issue. A person can spend hundreds per month of just up keep after the initial aquisition of the tank and setup.

[leebca]

Gene,

He only pointed out there was a serious shortage of younger people starting into the hobby. If you look around the room of our Society's membership, I'd say the average age may be in the 40's. This is the 'choir' in the sense that the attendees are the ones who have stayed in for an extended period of time.

The 'money pit' aspect is for sure a consideration. In early freshwater days, it was a process by the LFSs to almost give the tank and stand away with some accessories, knowing it will be the ongoing livestock and maintenance that has a greater revenue potential than the original sale. I think this concept carries over into the marine hobby.

[leebca]

Does anyone think that people leaving the hobby has anything to do with the intolerance of fishes and marine livestock in general to low water quality? -- that is -- I quit because I can't keep the livestock I want because it is too hard to maintain the water quality.

[zhenya]

Originally Posted by leebca

Does anyone think that people leaving the hobby has anything to do with the intolerance of fishes and marine livestock in general to low water quality? -- that is -- I quit because I can't keep the livestock I want because it is too hard to maintain the water quality.

Lee,

I would think, without sounding like an idiot, that maintaining water quality is not all that hard if you are persistent with water exchanges, have reasonably good equipment..,etc. However, you are right, some people give up easily but it would be hard to quantify exactly how many quit because of that reason alone.

Some people simply refuse to take any advice on what species of fishes, or inverts, are "easy" or almost impossible to keep without knowledge and proceed killing them...after they tire of that they give up.

Originally Posted by leebca

The 'money pit' aspect is for sure a consideration. In early freshwater days, it was a process by the LFSs to almost give the tank and stand away with some accessories, knowing it will be the ongoing livestock and maintenance that has a greater revenue potential than the original sale. I think this concept carries over into the marine hobby.

Lee, that was in the early days.., not so in today's hobby.Marine or freshwater. The stores are looking to make money, period.
As far as having younger people involved in the hobby, money would be the first thing precluding them to have a reef aquarium unless they have support of parents, of course.

[Frag Hag]

I don't know. Maybe the main reason people leave the hobby, is the same reason why there are so many dogs and cats at the animal shelters.

People like the ideal of having a pet, but when reality hits and pet becomes inconvenient, expensive, etc., some will just walk away.

Shay

[leebca]

Many posters in this thread have mentioned costs and money.

But it amazes me that, with such a large drop-out rate that there must be a considerable amount of used equipment out there at 20% of its original cost -- some even coming with livestock.

The LFS isn't in business to encourage the purchase of used equipment, of course, but is the hobby missing an opportunity of some kind to get the message to wannabe hobbyists that there is a lesser expensive way of starting into the hobby?

Is there any way to facilitate the knowledge that the prospective buyer has options other than starting with new equipment, from scratch?

[Samper]

I'm 25 and have been here for a while. I found this forum because I was interested in the hobby but had been given loads of horrible advice. My first setup was pathetic and I hope that some of the mods here are proud of the progress that I've made. I have put a lot of money into it and a lot of time doing research and learning the hard way. I never wanted to quit because I knew it was possible and when I want something I devote myself to it. Every time someone sees one of my systems they immediately want it that is until the conversation steers toward the costs and time that has to be put in. To be honest I don't have a single friend who's my age that is responsible or financially stable enough to even think about entering this hobby or lifestyle depending on how you look at it. I wanted to dedicate the time and money to do this right and it has paid off for me. To my friends however the cost of a protein skimmer = a lot of beers or whatever so understandably they have their priorities and I have mine. I've said it before but this website was the best thing that could have happened to me from a learning standpoint. I completely understand how someone could get in over their head quick because it has happened to me. Education and research is key and if someone can't afford the equipment or doesn't have the time or maturity to do things correctly I have no problem saying that they should find another hobby. It doesn't bother me that the typical age is around 40 or so because there is a level of maturity and stability that needs to be present that a lot of other hobbies don't require.

[Chuck Brinegar]

Lack of a mentor to show you the ropes is IMHO the major issue to educate and "develop" someone into a ReefKeeper. You can find most any LFS to have you spend (lots of) money. You need someone to "bounce" ideas off when you read one of the many reef authors.

The internet can be a place to bounce ideas, you still need an individual you trust (and has a great tank) to run ideas past.

I have been "trying" for 17 years and I'm almost there (NOTE: my wife says I'm fibbing a bit to you...she's hoping very-soon for a miracle) =0)

Mentors around here are hard to come by.

Additionally, if you have a good club, you are truly blessed with the potential for several mentors.

Thanks for reading this reply, keep educating yourself.

Chuck