[rjs5134]

I know I'm going to have my *** handed to me for asking this, and it is discussed constantly, but here goes. Since an ich outbreak wiped out all my fish, except the snowflake eel, I've begun to use a QT. The first fish quarantined were a pair of perculas. The tank was then completely wiped out including corals, feather dusters, anemone, copepods, bristleworms, snails, etc., except the snowflake eel and the male percula, by the heat wave of '06. The tank temp well exceeded 90 degrees, and even bleached most of the coralline algae. Once again, I'm Quarantining a replacement percula and a bellus angel. Since I'm going to such painstaking lengths to treat with hypo-salinity and QT for a full 8 weeks + I'm getting restless. To what extent does everyone quarantine? Do you Quarantine inverts, anemones, corals? I want to reseed with pods. Should they be quanrantined, or is that just being ridiculous? Couldn't the water with the pods be carrying ich spores?

My gut tells me to treat all fish with hypo for 6 weeks and treat for common bacterial infections and to QT inverts, corals etc. for 6 weeks with no fish. Is that what the more experienced and more educated do?

PS. any problem with treating for infectious agents following hypo treatment?

Thanks

[leebca]

Thanks for posting!

Sorry to hear about the tank wipe out from temperature. That was quite a blow to have to go through, I'm sure. I worry when my fish look at me strangely, so I can imagine the angst of what you may have gone through.

You might want to check out a poll I took a couple of months ago. This is the poll results:
Do You Use Any Kind of Quarantine Process?

The results are typical of the hobby. Now also read this relatively short thread:
Why Quit the Hobby?

I think you might find that the ones (2/3) who don't quarantine anything will be the most likely to leave the hobby early on. Those in the hobby a long time that never quarantine -- verify how long their fish live. Many fish die prematurely in captive life from low-level infections and parasites in the display tank. (My Tomato Clown is 18 years old).

I've quarantined fishes and invertebrates for now more than 35 years. I have never had Marine Ich nor Marine Velvet (Cryptocaryon irritans, Amyloodinium ocellatum) in any of my home display tanks. I have not had Black Ich, flukes, parasitic worms, 'red bugs,' etc., etc. in my display aquarium. In quarantine? I've seen and had about 90% of what the entire hobby sees. But, I have never lost a single fish in my home display tanks to any disease or parasite to the best of my knowledge. I have never had a fish die early because of disease stress, to the best of my knowledge.

I have performed a necropsy on hundreds of my fish looking to prove the contrary and to attempt to understand causes of deaths.

When those who don't quarantine can claim to have the same success, then I'll be impressed of their 'luck.' The bottom line is this: It isn't luck. Our aquariums are not little pieces of the ocean. We can't run our tanks like they were. There are some things we need to do that aren't done in Nature. One of them is to rid our livestock of parasites and disease before putting them into a closed system (i.e., 'glass cage'), where the disease can have a 'captive host' to feed upon.

With regards to your other questions, my opinions:
1) Pods, inverts, cleanup crew, etc. all have the potential to carry free swimming (not likely) Marine Ich parasites or encysted Marine Ich (higher probability). These livestock also carry pests, hitchhikers, and non-fish diseases, too.

2) If the snail and shrimp cleanup crew AND pods are introduced into an fishless aquarium, they can do their quarantine there. However, the cleanup crew can bring more than just fish diseases with them -- they can bring other pests that feed upon the cleanup crew. I don't personally quarantine them separately. (Keep in mind that I set up FOWLR aquariums, not reef tanks). But, I don't put fish into a new aquarium for 6 months AFTER the cleanup crew was introduced! So by the time fish are in the system, there are no obligate fish parasites present. Not willing to go the 6 months? Understandable. Then allow no less than 8 weeks without fish, AFTER the last of cleanup crew and pods were added.

3) Post cleanup crew and pods, everything is quarantined. If the aquarium is to have fish, then the quarantine must be no less than 6 weeks of all other livestock. Want more cleanup crew? want more pods? then they go through the 6 week quarantine before going into the display tank.

4) Live sand can contain some unwanted hitchhikers. The aquarist has to decide on the risk and source of the sand. I never use live sand. But if a fish parasite-free aquarium is the goal, the live sand must go fishless for no less than 6 weeks.

5) Your gut is misleading you. Hyposalinity only addresses one particular disease/parasite: Marine Ich. To attack just one parasite when there are dozens of others to be concerned about is a bit shortsighted. I've followed my own recommendations for more than 25 years now:
It Was Acclimation, I know. . .
Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes
A Fish Quarantine Process
and during all of this:
Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

[rjs5134]

Thanks Lee,

Pretty much what I was expecting. To finally answer your question on the Poll post, I didn't use any reef safe treatment. When the tank inhabitants showed signs of Ich, I pulled them out and put them in a brand new QT and left the tank empty of vertebrates.

The pods, inverts, clean-up crew, etc. was wiped out by the heat wave. I was out of town and the house sitter didn't notice until it was too late. In order to reseed the tank, I think I'll have to QT a new clean-up crew and pod culture.

I'm probably doing more than most by QT and treating for a full 6 weeks with hypo, but haven't started the remaining measures. This is a work in progress and I'm learning more every day. At this point though, I have a percula and a bellus angel that came from the LFS and were in the same tank there. Both are eating and show no signs of ill health.

Could they both be treated with the formalin treatment and treated for worms following the hypo treatment, during the hypo treatment, or should I do another hypo following these treatments?

Thanks again.

[leebca]

Ideally, the two fishes would be in separate quarantine tanks. Together though, it would be best to treat them both the same. This means giving one fish treatment it probably isn't likely to require.

During hyposalinity, the effects of some other treatments and medications can be disastrous. It is known for instance, that the use of antibiotics during a hyposaline treatment is much more effective and thus less antibiotic should be used. In the case of Formalin. . .A Formalin treatment in hyposaline water is deadly to fish. More fish die than are cured during such a treatment. Thus we know that a Formalin treatment should not be done in hyposaline water.

I would suggest that after the hyposalinity treatment is complete and the salinity has be restored to the 'normal' level, then proceed to perform Formalin dips according to this article:
Formaldehyde: Friend or Foe - Treating Saltwater Fish Diseases

The de-worming process I recommend can be done at anytime the fish are eating. The de-worming is performed by adding medication to the food and not the aquarium water. The hyposalinity doesn't have that much affect on this particular treatment.

Ask if you have any questions!