[vaporize]

Hi Lee,

It's me trouble-child again This is one of the biggest disease related problem that has been troubling me for awhile, I thought I avoided it by taking down a complete system... but it's surfacing again (at my friend's), so I decided to get to the bottom of this. So here's the story...

20G tall system, setup Nov 2005, cycled and matured.
- 30 lb LR, prism protein skimmer, sugar sand bottom, astea snail, coral banded shrimp, cleaner shrimp, narassius snails, hermit crabs, mushroom coral. All water parameter stable, 0 nitrate. Salinity 1.020

1. Added a pair of blue-stripe clown (wild caught, Tonga) to quarantine (I know it's incorrect to QT in cycled tank now). Both clowns eating all the time until the 13th day, one clown stopped eating. The next day both clowns are covered in oodinium (velvet, fine white dust), so they were taken out for FW dip & put into cupramine barebottom tank for treatment. One survive (and not put into this tank).
2. I was under the impression from various readings that ich & velvet will die off without fish host for an extended period of time. The tank was left empty fish-less for 8-9 weeks, however invertebrates, snail,shrimp,hermit are still in the tank.
3. Put in 6 tank breed & raise clownfish. These clownfish has been in another QT system for a period of 2 months and showed no diseases or symptoms. So I thought I will use this 20G to hold the fish (and mark as safe). The fish are eating everyday until the 12th day, some fish stopped eating and started to develop white mucus patches on their skin (see attachment pic3). I thought it's small matter and let the fish heal themselves, however the fish shows white mucus and die very fast. Only visible symptoms are the whitened skin & a bit of fin torn (I think this is secondary bacterial infection). From stop eating to death occus in 1/2 day - 2 days for all the fish. There is no skin peel off from typical brook pictures.
4. Leave the tank empty for 2 weeks. I remembered consulting you if brook has a stay-in-water stage like ich or velvet, and you said no. So I think that if it is brook (and looks very like it), it would be gone in 2 weeks
5. To verify that this mysterious disease is gone, I put in another wild sebae clown (newly purchase). It is eating and all is well, no external or internal symptoms until 13th day, it stopped eating and died almost the same day from the same symptoms. Whiten/mucus covered skin & fin torn.
6. Tank is taken down 2 weeks later, rock/sand are boiled using boiling water and also the equipment.

Although my system has been taken down, some of my friend's clowns (purchased from the same source but never touch my system's water at all) is exhibiting the same problem. They have been living in his tank for 3.5 weeks, and all of a sudden starting beginning of this week, his black ocellaris shows white mucus, so I asked him to do FW dip that seems to heal it a bit. With subsequent FW dip on last thu / sat / mon, it seems to be clearing up the white mucus (attachment pic4). However, he called me today that there's mass dieoff with symptoms similiar to my previous system and these attachment pictures are from his tank.

Lee, would you think this is caused by Mycobacterium we previously discussed or would you think it's something else like brook? If brook, fishless system should be able to remove the parasite right?

Attachment pic1, pic2 - tank breed & raised fish from my friend's system
Attachment pic3 - white mucus on fish, this is a more extreme case, some of the ones that died only have a patch or half covered/white off.
Attachment pic4 - black ocellaris previous with white mucus patch, FW dip 3 times and seems improved a bit.

Thank you very much for any insights and appreciated the help always.

Originally Posted by leebca

I asked the eating/appetite question(s) because tuberculosis (Mycobacterium) can be a possible cause. It is usually accompanied by a sharp drop in appetite, listless behavior, and the conditions I see and you have reported. Poorly kept fish are very susceptible to this. It is also very contagious and even dangerous to human beings if it is the 'wrong' species. Until this is eliminated as the cause, keep ungloved hands out of the water.

The suggestions I made (antibiotics) would likely have no affect at stopping this 'evil' microbe.

Do you have access to a laboratory or veterinarian or college that can analyze/identify fish microbes/bacteria? If this is a Mycobacterium infection, you'll want to know about it ASAP. Have them check for this, for sure. About all you can do is immediately remove any fish that looks sick from those that still look healthy. The use of a UV can help on a tank with an infection. Improving nutrition would also help, along with he addition of beta glucan. Containment is about the only control the aquarist has with this bacteria. Some advanced aquarists will euthanasia fish with this condition.

[leebca]

Tattered fins seem to be a common denominator in those photos.

In none of the post do I see a properly performed treatment for Brooklynella. Has this been performed?

The fact that other fishes, not in your system, show similar conditions points to the most likely source - a ciliate pathogen. I always recommend a FW dip of newly acquired marine fishes going into a quarantine tank (void of any other marine life and bare bottom unless the type of fish requires substrate). After being in the QT a couple of days, if the fish is an anemonefish, I recommend a Formalin treatment for Brooklynella, whether or not it is evident. Too many anemonefishes have infections of ciliate pathogens to 'wait and see' if the treatment is needed.

After the above, then monitor the fish an additional 6 weeks in QT for other signs of problems.

I think, until you've standardized your acquisition procedure to include:
1) proper acclimation: It Was Acclimation, I know. . .

2) Quarantine: A Fish Quarantine Process

3) An introductory FW dip: Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes

4) De-worming according to 1);

5) Feeding proper nutrition: Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

6) And then a Formalin treatment for Brooklynella for all anemonefishes: Formaldehyde: Friend or Foe - Treating Saltwater Fish Diseases

there isn't much in the way of good information for any further conclusive diagnosis. Everything I could offer would be speculation and more like trying to catch a butterfly in flight.

I suggest you establish a written procedure then adhere to it ALL the time. The procedure needs customization for anemonefish if that is your focus. You can post it in this Forum if you want me and others to review it for you.

Brooklynella hostilis is a ciliated organism and the cause of the disease. But there are many other species of ciliates parasitic on marine fishes. They appear with differing symptoms to some extent. By this I mean to imply that although what you see may not perfectly fit the clinical symptoms of a B. hostilis infection, the fish may still be affected by one or more of several dozen other such organisms.

I write about doing the prophylactic treatment on newly acquired anemonefishes for Brooklynella, but in fact, the recommended treatment will kill off a whole host of ciliate parasites that commonly infect anemonefishes -- some with Brooklynella similar or various other expressions/symptoms.

The Formalin dips for Brooklynella works because the ciliate pathogen doesn't reproduce without a fish. Consecutive dips diligently and properly performed will rid the fish and tank of this condition. But it is always best to treat a single fish in a single QT at a time. Trying to juggle multiple fishes in the same QT for a disease treatment that involves a dip or bath is often not successful.

You need to eliminate this possible condition with certainty before we can proceed to identify another possible problem.