[bellorusha]

one of the new fish died today after 4 days in QT. There was no sign of any sickness just eating slow and a little, but i think that was just becuase she was new. Flame Angelfish - $45. All water parametres are good.

When do I have to start worring about fish not eating good? 2 days? 4? a week?

what can be the reason of death? i just crashed because it died with no reason.

thanks.

[leebca]

WELCOME TO REEFLAND

Thanks for posting.

A healthy fish that has been eating well in its previous home (the sea, or someone else's aquarium) can usually live for up to 4 weeks without eating anything. This time varies with the type of fish. For the angelfish you had, that 4 week time would be about right.

A starved fish has a pinched-in dorsal part of its body. If the fish's body is 'thick' on the dorsal side, the fish has an energy reserve. The size or shape of the 'stomach area' is no indication of how fat a marine fish is.

The 'fast death' situation is most often related to acclimation stress problems. This doesn't mean it is something you did wrong; it could be a stress that occurred days or weeks ago. It is more common for a severe stress to kill the fish, especially when that stress doesn't go away or, if it was chemically induced, can't be compensated for by the fish. It could be trauma or chemical or physical. More on stress here: Stress (and the Single Marine Fish).

The usual cause of death in such a short time is an acclimation stress (as previously mentioned), but there a few dozen sub-possibles within that category and there are a few other categories (e.g., disease, infections, parasites, internal injury, etc.), too.

[bellorusha]

it means that i bought fish like this. is there any advice on How do I have to buy the fish so this is not going to happen again? I always tell them to feed the fish and if the fish do not eat, i'm not buying it. This fish was almost not eating.

also I did the acclimation process by Floating Method. It was first time I did this. And i had 3 fish together in one backet. Do I have to do this for each fish' individual? May be that is the problem?

[leebca]

Your optimum acquisition process is to do like you said -- you want to see the fish eating. If you think the fish isn't eating enough or if you're not convinced it is eating properly, then you want to pass it up. When buying a new fish from the LFS, you want to:

1. Inspect the fish closely for injury
2. Inspect the fish closely for any abnormal appearance
3. Inspect the fish closely for any signs of disease
4. Note the fish's behavior (hiding, scared, catatonic, etc.)
5. and finally, if the fish is hurt, dropped on the floor or otherwise terrorized during the netting process by the LFS, REFUSE to buy the fish.

Regarding acclimation. I've used what I recommend now for many years, modified over a 3-decade experience with marine fishes: It Was Acclimation, I know. . .

I recommend only:
1) adding one fish at a time to your aquarium; and thus you would be
2) putting through one fish at time through the acclimation and quarantine process.

There are a couple of exceptions to 1) but in general, you want to go slowly. A sudden increase in bio-load to your QT is enough to stress out fish and the biological filter. The latter can lead to death. One fish in the acclimation process: one fish in the QT: one fish added to the display tank at a time.

[bellorusha]

I bought 2 crabs and I do not know what are they. They looks like hermit crab but gray. Salesman told me that they are reef safe. Any idea what can it be? also are they safe to fish in QT? they are not going to kill fish?

thank you.

[leebca]

We'd probably need to see a photo of the crabs to help identify them. You can surf the Internet to see if you can a photo of the one you have and see if they can be identified that way.

Introducing anything into the QT that has a fish in it that is going through a proper quarantine runs the risk of introducing disease, and like you asked about, the chance the new livestock will harm the QT fish. Best not to. Best to quarantine each marine life you acquire in its own QT.

Even though the invertebrate diseases usually don't affect marine fish, the water they come in can contain fish parasites and fish disease, as well as some of those fish pathogens can attach themselves to the invertebrate and 'ride in' as hitchhikers.

[bellorusha]

here is the picture and I added them together with the fish.

[leebca]

Seems to be a hermit crab, but not one I'm familiar with.

Since you added livestock to livestock in QT your quarantine process should start the QT time over again. Unfortunately, if your fish need medical treatment, the fish medicine and treatment will often kill invertebrates like this one.

Still not a good reason to combine livestock in the QT. Take your time; go slowly. The hobby will be more fun if you go slowly.

[bellorusha]

the bought the fish (naso tang) wich was not eating. i took my chances becuse i was waiting for this fish for a long time. today is the 2nd day and it still not eating. should I do something?
thanks

[leebca]

Naso tangs can be tricky. Some adapt well and start eating.

Each day, offer fresh dried algae. Try a variety of frozen foods.

But most importantly, look for any source of stress on this fish. This fish prefers to be in a 180 gallon aquarium or larger. It's quarantine tank should be no less than 30 gallons when it is alone. Lack of space can be a stressor that leads to a hunger strike. Water quality is another stressor that can lead to not eating.

Maintain top water quality with a steady pH holding between 8.3 and 8.4 If any ammonia or nitrites show up on your tests, you must do water changes. No ammonia and nitrites should be around this fish at anytime.

Environment can be a stressor, too. Have you provided hiding spaces for the fish? Any other livestock there to 'bother it?' Hunger strikes can be brought on by the presence of other strange fishes and marine livestock, too.

In general, two or three days not eating isn't a problem. There is stress during acclimation even if water quality is optimum. So, it may be a matter of time. Just keep up the water quality and try a variety of foods. Remove all uneaten food 1 to 2 hours after feeding.

[bellorusha]

I have 2 fish in my 20g QT. Naso and Angel Koran and 2 crabs. 2 crabs was a mistake and i do not know what to do now. Angel fish somethimes trying to bite naso... not often but trying.

[leebca]

The angel is at least one of the stressors on the Naso and part of the Naso refusing to eat. Like humans, fish don't think much about eating during a battle. Part of the quarantine process is to acclimate a new fish. In trying to acclimate more than one fish at a time, they are just being forced into a small area where they can't really fully acclimate. under these conditions, you can expect almost any outcome.

Going back to your statement about how you couldn't pass it up. . .Think of buying it from the fish's perspective. You're giving the fish a chance to live under stress in your care, or to die. I think it should have been passed up until you were ready. Slow is better not only for the fish, but also for your ultimate enjoyment and reduced frustration with the hobby.

If you don't have at least a 180 gallon aquarium home for the Naso, then the right thing to do is stop the process and get the fish back to the store or into a new home (if you care about the fish). As for the crabs, your choice was also not to take them. If you want to keep them in with the angel that is okay for now, but if you have to treat the angel for anything, the crabs will have to go (a new home or to the store). See if you can get store credit for the Naso and crabs.