[stdreb27]

So I am a new saltwater guy. I just lost a damsel, He was a blue devil. And well basically he just turned black and would sit on the bottom of the tank. Gulping down water. Then go to the top and gulp water. So I put him in another tank and he died in two or three days. Anyways now my puffer has turned dark. And has been sitting on the intake to the filter. All day long.
I am using the outtake of the canister as the "powerhead" And that turns over the water really well. My nitrites and trates are 0 the ammonia is between 0 and .25 usually where it is at. The ph is 8.2.the salinity is 29 ppt. I don't have a skimmer yet. But all the other fish are active and being there usual self so I don't think it is a o2 problem.
my tank is 180 gallons, I have 45 ish pounds of live rock. Argonite substrate. I have a canister (working on building a sump and buying a skimmer dang college is expensive) I have a lunar wrasse 2 damsels now a coral beauty and a lawnmower besides a dogface. Just a couple snails left. I'm using tap water right now didn't know it was bad till a couple days ago. They are all young except for the lawnmower and the coral beauty.
What do I need to look for to determine what is wrong and what do I do about it?

[leebca]

An unknown is the tap water. Generally not something to use either in top off or salt water make up: WATER - Source and NSW

There is a possible contaminant in the tank water that either isn't analyzed for or for which we don't have kits for.

Perform a very large water change once every couple of days using the best quality RO/DI or distilled water. Since the tank is so large, find a good RO/DI source. Before you use this water test it for:
nitrate
phosphate
ammonia
nitrite
pH
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS)

Make sure the above test results are optimal before using any new water source. Distilled water has a TDS of about "0." RO/DI water will have a TDS of less than 10.

This is the place to start to resolve or narrow what is going on in your tank.

[stdreb27]

I've got a unit ordered so I can make my own. You don't think it is a disease but more so a contaminent. That is what I was wondering about.

[leebca]

It's hard to say for sure. The turning dark is sometimes a sign of poisoning. But the best way to tell for sure would be a blood sample analysis and necropsy on the dead fishes. Not likely going to happen, unless you want to take your fish to a veterinarian knowledgeable about fish.

The alternative would be to assume a poisoning and begin to eliminate possible sources. Look for sources. Start with the source water. Move to gear your system up to reduce or eliminate wastes. They include skimmer, use of activated carbon, additional water tests.

Was your live rock 'traditional' or obtained from any uncertain sources (i.e., could the rock be releasing any toxins?). Is there anything in your tank that might be leaching or releasing any toxins?

If a large water change has a positive impact on the fish, then you can put poisons/toxins on the top of the list.

I'd say that there is a slightly better chance of a poisoning than a pathogen.

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by leebca

It's hard to say for sure. The turning dark is sometimes a sign of poisoning. But the best way to tell for sure would be a blood sample analysis and necropsy on the dead fishes. Not likely going to happen, unless you want to take your fish to a veterinarian knowledgeable about fish.

The alternative would be to assume a poisoning and begin to eliminate possible sources. Look for sources. Start with the source water. Move to gear your system up to reduce or eliminate wastes. They include skimmer, use of activated carbon, additional water tests.

Was your live rock 'traditional' or obtained from any uncertain sources (i.e., could the rock be releasing any toxins?). Is there anything in your tank that might be leaching or releasing any toxins?

If a large water change has a positive impact on the fish, then you can put poisons/toxins on the top of the list.

I'd say that there is a slightly better chance of a poisoning than a pathogen.

I don't think anything is leaching from inside my tank the LR was purchased from a decent lfs and is good fiji rock. But generally my fish seem happier the longer I do between water changes. Mainly due to the really bad tap water I have (I ordered an RO filter) I had tested it and the water was off the scale on ammonia and stuff. I was putting prime in the water to knock down the chlorine and stuff was reducing the ammonia too. But to make a long story short they seem better the longer the water is in there. He does seem worse after he eats. For an hour or so. But the other fish eat the same stuff and seem ok.

[leebca]

What kind of system are you setting up? Is it a FOWLR? The reason I ask is that the amount of live rock you have in the 180g is almost just 20% of the amount normally stocked in a 180.

For this sized aquarium about 200 to 300 pounds of live rock is usually used to control the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels. The ammonia readings should be zero all the time on an established aquarium. You didn't mention how old the system is, but with those fish in it that you have, the aquarium should be an established and mature system.

If the tap water shows signs of chemical readings that are not good for the aquarium livestock, then there are likely other things in the tap water that you are not and can't measure. As mentioned in the previously given reference, there are hundreds of things in human drinking/tap water that are not suitable for marine livestock. The water conditioners can't address and 'fix' everything that can be wrong with the water, unfortunately.

As you've described, it seems that new water coming in, made with the tap water, is stressing the fish. If you can't get the RO/DI unit up and running this week, can you buy RO/DI water from anywhere? Your fish need new water as soon as possible.

Good luck!

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by leebca

What kind of system are you setting up? Is it a FOWLR? The reason I ask is that the amount of live rock you have in the 180g is almost just 20% of the amount normally stocked in a 180.

For this sized aquarium about 200 to 300 pounds of live rock is usually used to control the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels. The ammonia readings should be zero all the time on an established aquarium. You didn't mention how old the system is, but with those fish in it that you have, the aquarium should be an established and mature system.

If the tap water shows signs of chemical readings that are not good for the aquarium livestock, then there are likely other things in the tap water that you are not and can't measure. As mentioned in the previously given reference, there are hundreds of things in human drinking/tap water that are not suitable for marine livestock. The water conditioners can't address and 'fix' everything that can be wrong with the water, unfortunately.

As you've described, it seems that new water coming in, made with the tap water, is stressing the fish. If you can't get the RO/DI unit up and running this week, can you buy RO/DI water from anywhere? Your fish need new water as soon as possible.

Good luck!

So after actually getting a tank I'm finally learning what I don't know. So I can learn about it. It is a FOWLR tank. I am going to buy a RO/di unit in the next few days still trying to find the right one. The lfs said that that was plenty of LR go figure. I was going to buy some rock from the Dr's but have since decided to buy an Ro/Di. I have no clues about what all there is in the water but what I could test was not good. I've been set up since june. What I don't understand is now the puffer looks fine as happy as ever. So I don't know.

[leebca]

The effects of poisons come and go for the most part (thank goodness!), and your water quality (tap water) will probably vary.

Just keep reading and asking questions! Do you have a good book that you've bought and are using? It helps to have a book that you can easily read and understand.

[stdreb27]

not about care, I have some good books about fish.