Porcupine puffer hunger strike

[weez1959]

Hello everyone and happy new year!

This concerns my daughter's tank and fish,...

A few days ago she bought a small 2.5" porcupine puffer. She had been watching him at the LFS for about 3 weeks and he seemed to be doing fine, looked perfectly clean. He was in a tank by himself and the tank was not sharing water with the other tanks. (actually I was quite surprised by this as all his tanks run independant of each other which I think is a good thing)

Anyways she brought him home and put him in a QT (very slowly acclimated) and he hasn't eaten since. (She was checking him out at the LFS but forgot to ask him if he was eating and what) Anyways against my suggestion of leaving him in QT a bit longer she decided to put him in the DT (again, very slowly acclimated) but he still isn't eating. She called the store and was told he was eating feeder guppies so she went out and bought a few but it didn't faze him at all.

She tried Shrimp, clams, frozen formula one, mysis, brine, nothing works.
I read somewhere that puffer will go on eating strikes but for how long?

I read about force feeding, isn't this a bit harsh? How is this done if this is the only option?

Right now he's in a 50 gallon tank with only 3 smaller fairly peaceful fish. She know this is too small but this spring when I upgrade to a bigger tank, she will be getting my 75 gallon.

Right now though she would like to know how to get him to feed. He's really not interested because there's a small coral banded shrimp in there with him and he won't even look at it!

[leebca]

If and when the puffer decides to eat, that shrimp will definitely be on the menu!

Puffers go off and on their feed in captivity. No one truly understands this behavior. The fish, in theory, has a memory for stress and when stressed, will hang on to 'that state of mind' for some time. You want to be sure the fish is as stress-free as possible.

Unfortunately for the fish, it is no longer in quarantine. While in quarantine there are a couple of things that can be done, such as adding appetite stimulants to the water (can't be done effectively in the display), the force feeding you mentioned (easier on the fish to be so fed while it is in quarantine), and injecting the fish with appetite stimulants (also best done while the fish is in quarantine).

Attempts at these things in the past have had mixed results with there being no sure way of getting the fish to eat. It will be something like 'suddenly' the fish will want to eat. Unfortunately, the fish was being fed at the LFS the wrong food, so the fish at least has a nutritional stress going on. It is definitely short on proper nutrition. But this is a moot point until the fish starts to eat again. ;)

The foods being tried are some of the correct foods. You might try different presentations of the food. This includes smaller or larger pieces (vary the size), offering the food on a spike (movement of the food in its vicinity), and soaking now and then a bit of the food in garlic juice (I prefer home made juice) as an enticement. These efforts have also had mixed results.

It seems when the fish is ready, it will eat. How long? It could die refusing to eat, but most likely it will start eating before then. These fish often pick up internal parasites and it is one of the fish that needs de-worming, for sure. When it begins to eat, be prepared to de-worm it.

Forget the brine shrimp and mysis (unless you can get some live ones). Try squid, mussel, and scallop (all raw of course) on a stick.

Force feeding is a bit harsh (I agree) and drastic. The fish is anesthetized, a tube put down its throat and a liquefied food including vitamins and appetite stimulants are squeezed into the fish. The fish is put into a recovery tank then back into its (quarantine) tank.

One thing you can do: Get the tank parameters from the LFS she got the fish from and compare those readings to the tank the fish is in. You want:
pH
Temp
Salinity (or specific gravity)
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
It may be, however, unrealistic to assume that those water parameters have remained the same this long.

Running separate tanks is very inefficient for an LFS. Did the one tank have a mechanical filter, UV, skimmer, etc. on it? What was performing the biological filter duties in the one tank?

Although I appreciate the 'slow acclimation' process, this doesn't say that the bag water matched in pH, temperature, and specific gravity, before the fish was put into the QT. Taking those measurements will tell you if the fish was ready for release. I cover this in: It Was Acclimation, I know. . .

So beyond some of the suggestions above, it will be a wait and see type thing.

If the fish's original water parameters were different than the DT, then slowly alter the DT water to meet the fish's original water parameters to see if that helps. If it is found that the water parameters are close, similar or the same, then perform a 60%+ water change to see if the fish responds to that incentive. This, like the other things, also has mixed results.

[weez1959]

If and when the puffer decides to eat, that shrimp will definitely be on the menu!
That's what I though, it will be an expensive snack!
Puffers go off and on their feed in captivity. No one truly understands this behavior. The fish, in theory, has a memory for stress and when stressed, will hang on to 'that state of mind' for some time. You want to be sure the fish is as stress-free as possible.
He doesn't look stressed, I check in on him a couple times a day and watch him swimming around for 20 minutes or so, looks ok but won't touch anything.

Unfortunately for the fish, it is no longer in quarantine. While in quarantine there are a couple of things that can be done, such as adding appetite stimulants to the water (can't be done effectively in the display), the force feeding you mentioned (easier on the fish to be so fed while it is in quarantine), and injecting the fish with appetite stimulants (also best done while the fish is in quarantine).
I tried to convince her to leave him there but she was stressing out because he wouldn't eat, she figured he'd eat in the DT.

Attempts at these things in the past have had mixed results with there being no sure way of getting the fish to eat. It will be something like 'suddenly' the fish will want to eat. Unfortunately, the fish was being fed at the LFS the wrong food, so the fish at least has a nutritional stress going on. It is definitely short on proper nutrition. But this is a moot point until the fish starts to eat again. ;)

The foods being tried are some of the correct foods. You might try different presentations of the food. This includes smaller or larger pieces (vary the size), offering the food on a spike (movement of the food in its vicinity), and soaking now and then a bit of the food in garlic juice (I prefer home made juice) as an enticement. These efforts have also had mixed results.
She tried shrimp soaked in garlic guard on a clip with no results. When we first tried to feed him we were using the vitamins (zoe) you suggested for my Sailfin Tang but now we're not going to bother until he actually eats something.

It seems when the fish is ready, it will eat. How long? It could die refusing to eat, but most likely it will start eating before then. These fish often pick up internal parasites and it is one of the fish that needs de-worming, for sure. When it begins to eat, be prepared to de-worm it.
I guess if you don't think it will stress him, he could be easily caught and put back in QT for de-worming

Forget the brine shrimp and mysis (unless you can get some live ones). Try squid, mussel, and scallop (all raw of course) on a stick.

Force feeding is a bit harsh (I agree) and drastic. The fish is anesthetized, a tube put down its throat and a liquefied food including vitamins and appetite stimulants are squeezed into the fish. The fish is put into a recovery tank then back into its (quarantine) tank.
I don't think she'll go for that

One thing you can do: Get the tank parameters from the LFS she got the fish from and compare those readings to the tank the fish is in. You want:
Actually I did check some of those:
pH 7.5!!
Temp not sure since the trip was 1/2 hour, it could have changed a bit
Salinity (or specific gravity) 1.023
Ammonia - ?
Nitrite - ?
Nitrate - ?
It may be, however, unrealistic to assume that those water parameters have remained the same this long.
True

Running separate tanks is very inefficient for an LFS. Did the one tank have a mechanical filter, UV, skimmer, etc. on it? What was performing the biological filter duties in the one tank?
From what I saw just an aqua-clear 30 in the back and I guess because it was a puffer he also had a larger fluval at the front. The rest of the tanks all had one hang on filter.
I will say he's very new to saltwater. (6 months or so) Who knows, maybe he's in for trouble in the near future. I just thought it was good that none of the fish were exposed to diseases from another tank by being separate...
He used to specialize in Koi only. He has one he calls his son, an 18 year old white koi (almost 2 feet long) that comes up from his in-store pond to be patted on the head. Anyways that's besides the point...

Although I appreciate the 'slow acclimation' process, this doesn't say that the bag water matched in pH, temperature, and specific gravity, before the fish was put into the QT. Taking those measurements will tell you if the fish was ready for release. I cover this in: It Was Acclimation, I know. . .

So beyond some of the suggestions above, it will be a wait and see type thing.

If the fish's original water parameters were different than the DT, then slowly alter the DT water to meet the fish's original water parameters to see if that helps. If it is found that the water parameters are close, similar or the same, then perform a 60%+ water change to see if the fish responds to that incentive. This, like the other things, also has mixed results.

She did a 30% yesterday, should she do another?

Maybe that coral banded will look good to him soon!

[leebca]

I'd wait a day or two then due a massive water change (over 60%) if she can.

Start mixing the water/salt now to be sure it will be thoroughly ready.

I'm concerned about the pH. Fish in general don't like a change in pH. That is a stress source. Keep in mind that marine fishes don't always show us stress except like not eating.

Not worth moving the fish for the de-worming. That can be done anywhere when the fish starts eating. But if the fish is moved to a QT it will give additional opportunities to try different things to get it to eat. Don't forget to give different presentations a chance, too.

Good luck!

[weez1959]

Today i saw him pooping, normal consistency but bright yellow?!?
Does this sound right?

[leebca]

Depends upon what you mean by

. . .normal consistency. . .

What is 'normal consistency' to you? I'm not too concerned about the color, since the fish has been eating the wrong foods.

[weez1959]

I guess what I mean is not liquidy, holds together for a while, not stringy...

[leebca]

Carnivore waste from the proper foods should be particulate matter. If any part of the fecal matter hangs together while the fish is defecating, then it is stringy. It should break into particulates as it exits. (This is a hobby?!)

[weez1959]

Got it! Fun hobby huh?
hehehe

It mostly broke apart on exit but there was one or 2 chunks about 1/4" long that needed to be picked at by the other fish before it fell apart. I will keep an eye on that a little better now that I'm almost a poo expert!