[smpolyp]

What advanced test kit for copper do you recomend for distributors, store owners or the avid hobbiest?

What is the akalinity level that starts to percipitate cooper?


If nitrofurizone is tough on surface bacteria. What will it do for internal?

Sorry for the random questions. When you find someone that can answer them you have to ask.

[leebca]

I moved this post into its own thread.

What advanced test kit for copper do you recommend for distributors, store owners or the avid hobbiest?

Copper medications have a variety of different formulas and chemicals (See: Copper - Treatment, Use, Problems). The copper test kit(s) to use with any particular copper medication is the test kit recommended by the medication manufacturer. Only they know which test kit properly represents an accurate test of copper from the use of their medication.

In my opinion, when an LFS or outlet offers a copper medication, they should also carry the appropriate copper test kit recommended by the medication manufacturer so that aquarist doesn't have to hunt all over town or the Internet to obtain what's needed for a copper treatment.

What is the alkalinity level that starts to percipitate cooper?

All levels of alkalinity precipitate some copper. Copper combines with any carbonate. Not only does this include substrates and live rock that have carbonate components, but it also include the carbonates in salt water. This ties into the above point about how different medications are formulated and how they act differently in water. Today's formulations are made to inhibit the combination of the copper with the carbonates found in sea water, but some still does.

If Nitrofurazone is tough on surface bacteria. What will it do for internal?

Chemicals that affect internal bacteria have got to pass through the mucous coating and the fish's skin to enter inside the body of the fish. Oral administering of drugs has some but less effective control of systemic infections (because the drug is partially destroyed by intestinal chemicals). The fish drinks water constantly, however if the drug still can't pass through the mucous coating and membranes of the gills, it doesn't enter the fish's body to any appreciable amount. Nitrofurazone is not known to migrate into/inside the fish through the fish's defenses. Hence it has a reputation for being particularly effective as an antiseptic, killing surface organisms of a wide (and deadly) range.

[smpolyp]

I get stores asking me time from time is there a better test kit. Many have problems reading the color. Sometimes two different people will read two different numbers. I have even come across some that are color blind. At this point would you suggest a digital meter and the use of fee copper? Or is it still best to stick with cuppermine?
Sorry for posting in the sticky. Your articles got me so excited I had a brain fart.

[leebca]

No worries about where you post so long as you post.

The use of a copper test kit is totally connected to the medication being used. That I have to stand by.

In the case of using Cupramine, it is the Salifert or Seachem Copper Test Kit. Salifert probably can be used with other medications, since the Salifert Test Kit can be first used at the 10-minute reading and to verify the reliability of that reading, the reading is performed again after another 10 minutes (20 minutes total). If the two readings are the same, the proper number is probably known.

As far as copper treatment is concerned, there is none better so far than Cupramine, despite the hype and marketing efforts by other manufacturers. I gave the reasoning behind this in my post:
Copper - Treatment, Use, Problems
However additional pluses is that the treatment lasts 14 days after the full concentration of copper is achieved; it's a protected copper; it's more easily removed from the water than free copper and chelated copper.

I think any caring LFS, wholesaler, etc. should be using Cupramine. My LFS does.

[smpolyp]

I run across wholesalers who like more than a color change test. They seem to not trust them so much as they have to rely on workers to do the test for them. I have also run across aquarist that are color blind. I understand you may not want to take a possition on recomending a spacific meter over another with the use of cuppermine. In this case what do you suggest?
Please excuse me I mean well.

[leebca]

Please excuse me I mean well.

No problems. Not to worry. I understand obstacles.

Employee trust isn't so much the issue as proper employee training. After the employee is properly trained, supervision is required. The supervision can be a record they keep with their initials as to the test results and amounts added to the system. Then comes enforcement. If the employee makes a mistake, verify the employee was/had been properly trained and if so, take disciplinary action.

When there is a trust or diligence issue, it is the responsibility of management to rectify it. Even if an electronic monitoring system is used, the management still faces the same diligence and trust issues. These problems don't go away based upon the type of test being performed because somewhere along the line, the employee is going to have to be involved (gathering a proper sample; maintaining the equipment; calibrations; etc.).

A color blind person, I believe can still discern shades. In the case of the Salifert Test Kit, the color is blue. I thought color blindness is mostly the colors of red, orange, green, and brown. If I am totally wrong on this, then a color blind person to the blue color should use the intensity of the 'shade' or 'greyness.' This is good enough. It is a matter of practicing with someone who can see colors to indicate the targets of what is the high, low, and proper shade of the color.

If the above still isn't good enough then the next proper thing to do is have the water analyzed by a qualified laboratory. Understand this doesn't resolve an employee trust or diligence issue. The employee still has to be trained and supervised to take a proper sample, package it properly, ship it, etc. There are a few chemical procedures, techniques. and equipment used in the laboratory which can handle copper analysis in sea water, regardless of how the copper is complexed in solution. The single element test should cost no more than $35. plus any shipping/packaging costs.

[RHINO13]

Hey guys I am red/green color blind.

It pretty much sucks trying to read tests,that is until I got someone to let me know what they thought compared to what I thought.(Also it took a few tomes before I was confident)

That being said I would definitely agree with Lee"s statement

It is a matter of practicing with someone who can see colors to indicate the targets of what is the high, low, and proper shade of the color