[vaporize]

Hi LEE,

Hope everything is going well. I have another trouble today with two of my Australian Latez clowns, they are around 1-1.5" juv sized. Arrived in the LFS for one week and in my QT for a week. Both have been very finicky and very scared most of the time (in LFS and my QT) but they have been actively eating and behaving normally (except to the extremely shy behaviour).

Sunday 2am: Up until last night at 2am (only very dim lights were on), just before I check on them, they were behaving normally and swimming alright, getting ready to sleep mode.

3:30am After I coime back to check on them, the lights are out and I noticed that they are floating sideways on the top corner on the tank swimming. So I was thinking that it might be their sleeping positions because alot of my t.r. clowns do behave that way. However after the ceiling light's been on for 1/2 hr or so, and watching them closely, they are still swimming in that position, I guess something might be wrong as usually when the lights are on, they will go back into hiding (like all other fish). So I checked the temperature, it was fluctuating between 80-82F, so I took out the heater and put in a smaller heater (trying to eliminate heater malfunction suspicion). And turn on a fan to cool the water off

11:30 am, this morning I come back to check on them (lights are out), they are still swimming at the top corner at the water level and swimming sideways. The tank is aerated with a sponge filter (seeded for 2 weeks) so I am sure the oxygen level should be enough for 2 1" clownfish in a 20G QT. I turned on the light and look at them closely (at less than a foot), they still do not hide or react to it, usually sleeping clownfish will wake up after lights are on. I think there's something seriously wrong. breathing rate is normal and they are semi-reactive (but definitely not behaving the very shy behaviour as before).

- temperature dropped to 71F (recommended range for this type of clownfish is 71-77F since it's a temperate species). so I increased the heater a bit.
- I also changed 40% of the water in case there are some kind of contaminant in the water.

I am really worry about these as they are very hard to get, and I really have no idea why they are behaving so strange.

Please help.

[leebca]

It isn't clear if they are still eating or not. I suspect not. Their indifference or reduced attention to their surroundings is a real bad sign.

It is usually a sign the fish is about to die. Usually attributed to acclimation problems or disease.

Acclimation problems
Not necessarily a bad acclimation to your system, but just could be they can't handle captivity very well. Could be they can't handle the temperature fluctuations you've and others may have subjected them to. Unknown like how they were handled in transit, at a wholesaler, at the LFS (see below). Stability is important to wild caught fishes in general.

What was the travel route? That is, were they shipped to a holder/way station from Australia, then to LAX/wholesaler, then to LFS? or what other routing?

How did the LFS acclimate the fish to the LFS water? Are you sure of their procedure? Did you witness it?

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disease
The most likely malady: brooklynellosis. Were they treated for brooklynellosis when you acquired them? Coming out of a wholesaler and LFS mixed water they could have contracted almost anything. When you write 'in LFS,' was the LFS water mixed with other fish-tank waters? Does your LFS run the system with copper or any additives?

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I think you covered your bases well with the water change, so long as the temperature, salinity and pH remained the same as the water that was changed. Stability is important, as mentioned above.

I would lower the specific gravity to between 1.014 and 1.016 over a period of about 24 hours. This will provide them the ability to conserve energy. Hold pH, salinity and temp steady. If there is any hint of Brook, perform the Formalin treatment. For now, treat with Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish following dose directions on the medication.

If it's acclimation, not much to do but hope. If it's disease, be prepared to act fast should any symptom raise its head.

[vaporize]

Hi LEE,

Thanks for the help as always.

Just an update, after I come back tonight at round 8pm and turned on the aquarium light, the fish seems to be hiding and very nervous (comparing to the days before), however they do not hang out idle at the top corner of the tank anymore but hiding in holes. Temperature has gone back to 78F and I intended to keep it there. They are responsive to food and eat like before, I try not to overfeed them (because I suspect that might be a cause). Perhaps the 50% water change did help a bit.

Just an update on the QT, it's 20G, sponge filter, 2 pieces of LR (same tank as the sponge filter seeded tank). I know that QT should not have LR but I really want a stable water quality, in case of copper or other medicine, I will remove the LR. Ammonia -0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-5, pH 8.1.

The fish however is still very nervous, but responsive to human (i.e. hide from my approaches). Their behaviour is normal (big one shows a mild aggression towards the small one, which they have been exhibiting for the past week). Breathing rate is a bit faster than normal (like nervous type of breahting rate, but definitely not ich/velvet/brook type of fast breathing that I am very familiar with). And one of them also yawns (like a normal clownfish). So aside from the nervous nature, they do look better than before (but definitely not swimming out in the open like the past week).

Background:
The fish come direct from Australian exporter to my LFS, since in Canada our LFS tend to order direct (probably means Australian -> HK/Hawaii/US -> Canada, without going into any other systems). I purchased 3 (1 from fish system - died of velvet, I put it in another QT knowing the danger of their fish system, however copper treatment did not save it; the current 2 surviving were put directly into their coral holding/reef system without much acclimation - I do not think they will lower their reef system to a low pH). I on purposely asked the LFS to hold the fish for a week to decrease the risk a bit on my side, and they were in their coral holding system (with crush coral) & heavy skimming/ca reactor for a week. Then I put them into my QT system.

So in short, these two are in better condition and no medicine (except the first no acclimation) than the dead one. However I think I might be witnessing acclimation issues with these, in the future I might actually pick them up and acclimate them myself (since these clowns are rare & $$$).

On the brook side, I have not perform a formalin dip on them given these reasons:
- formalin dip can cause a lot of stress and I do not want to put such finicky fish thru unless i see brook
- 1" juv wild caught clownfish does not handle a series of formalin dips well (also the nervous nature will cause alot more stress)
- they were in LFS's coral tank for a week, so pass the most critical brook period

I will continue to observe and update the thread, hopefully they will survive the acclimation period.

Originally Posted by leebca

It isn't clear if they are still eating or not. I suspect not. Their indifference or reduced attention to their surroundings is a real bad sign.

It is usually a sign the fish is about to die. Usually attributed to acclimation problems or disease.

Acclimation problems
Not necessarily a bad acclimation to your system, but just could be they can't handle captivity very well. Could be they can't handle the temperature fluctuations you've and others may have subjected them to. Unknown like how they were handled in transit, at a wholesaler, at the LFS (see below). Stability is important to wild caught fishes in general.

What was the travel route? That is, were they shipped to a holder/way station from Australia, then to LAX/wholesaler, then to LFS? or what other routing?

How did the LFS acclimate the fish to the LFS water? Are you sure of their procedure? Did you witness it?

---------

disease
The most likely malady: brooklynellosis. Were they treated for brooklynellosis when you acquired them? Coming out of a wholesaler and LFS mixed water they could have contracted almost anything. When you write 'in LFS,' was the LFS water mixed with other fish-tank waters? Does your LFS run the system with copper or any additives?

--------

I think you covered your bases well with the water change, so long as the temperature, salinity and pH remained the same as the water that was changed. Stability is important, as mentioned above.

I would lower the specific gravity to between 1.014 and 1.016 over a period of about 24 hours. This will provide them the ability to conserve energy. Hold pH, salinity and temp steady. If there is any hint of Brook, perform the Formalin treatment. For now, treat with Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish following dose directions on the medication.

If it's acclimation, not much to do but hope. If it's disease, be prepared to act fast should any symptom raise its head.