New 180 gallon system build TOTW 9-6-07 Fish List

[Samper]

Today I started thinking about fish selection.
Here is what I'm thinking.

1 tang Either Zebrasoma flavescens or Ctenochaetus strigosus
1 Neocirrhites armatus
A pair of Gramma loreto
A pair of Premnas biaculeatus aquacultured or A pair of Amphiprion ocellaris also aquacultured
1 Salarias fasciatus

Possibly 1 male Pterapogon kauderni and two females.

With all of them that's 10 fish in a 180. Stocking that many would take some time. The majority of them are relatively small but the Zebramosas get much bigger than the rest and I've seen them not play so nice. The tang would most likely be the last addition anyway though. There are a lot of pod eaters and that also concerns me without a gravity fed refugium. I plan on ordering the livestock and rock from Kevin because quite frankly I trust him. Everything will still be quarantined though.

[leebca]

I've copied the fish list post into its own thread. I'd hate to have to deal with 4+ pages of posts. . .

The list is certainly fine in the sense the biological filter and swimming space is sufficient.

Choice of fishes is very personal so I don't offer suggestions. If those are what you like, then they are what you should keep. However, there may be more than one problem with this grouping:

The Zebrasoma flavescens is a fish that often brings a bad attitude with it. Common and attractive, it is more rude and combative than many Tangs. If you must have one, put it in last.

The Neocirrhites armatus can sometimes be a pest and might not do well with peaceful fish. Remember it is a hunter-carnivore.

Which leads us to Pterapogon kauderni. It's too peaceful for the others you've chosen. You have put together an assertive grouping and these are not assertive fish. I'd recommend to replace this in your list.

No aquarium should be the food provider for captive marine fishes. It's not possible on two levels -- not enough food diversity, not enough quantity. All fishes, including pod eaters, need to go through a quarantine process which, besides the obvious reasons of health, is an opportunity to train the fish to eat prepared foods of proper nutrition. If properly trained, it doesn't matter, the number of pods in the system.

[Samper]

The Z. flavescens is probably my least favorite fish on the list. The only reason it was included is because this will be a tank that a lot of people see and the yellow tangs are eye catching. I have seen them misbehave though and they get slightly larger than I like so it's quite possible that I won't have this particular species. I have always felt that tangs are an important addition to home aquaria provided the right environment.

I have two Neocirrhites armatus, One in each of my 75 gallon reefs. I have never seen either interract with another fish other than sliding up to a new addition, flaring fins and yawning while sort of vibrating on the rock. After this show the new addition is never given a second glance. I've never seen mine agitate or bother smaller fish. The flamehawk is always a tough choice for me because their personality is so amazing but keeping one limits what else you can keep. For instance shrimp...

The Pterapogon kauderni won't be chosen. I've also kept them before and could see why they could be a poor choice.

Perhaps you could recommend a replacement for the hawk. I would like to have some personality and color swimming around and the hawk stands out in that department. A small school in the display is also important and I actually thought about Chromis cyaneus before the cardinals.

[leebca]

To me, nothing has personality more than an Angelfish. A very young Goldflake could work well. Timid at first, it will come to know the owner/feeder and swim more or less out in the open when it feels safe. When it gets over 5" it should go into a 300+ display.

I have a Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus solorensis that attracts attention. It hides quickly when things look 'dicey' outside its tank. A Harlequin Tusk looks good and will come to recognize its owner, too.

Without the more peaceful fish, the Hawkfish would be okay. But like you say, the hunter-predatory nature limits some of the other marine life you can put in there. But the Harlequin Tusk would go well with the Hawkfish.

You might want to look through a book of marine fishes, like the one Scott W. Michael put together, for some ideas.

[Samper]

Lee I have no experience keeping angelfish and won't be able to upgrade the display when the time comes.

I'm hoping that whatever the final decision is that they can get used to people being around all the time. The public aquariums that I've been in were fine. There are atleast 700 students a day coming through that building though.

Will order the book you suggested this evening and if you think of anything that I should also consider please let me know. I have a while to research this.

For now here these are set in stone.
Ctenochaetus strigosus
Gramma loreto pair
Premnas biaculeatus or Amphiprion ocellaris pair
Salarias fasciatus

Thank you for your help so far.

[Samper]

Lee one other question. In regards to damselfish....I've read that Chromis are hearty and peaceful but don't personally know. They are wanting a small school...4-5 fish. I thought these might be a nice touch but am unsure of the species needed or the adult sizes. What are your thoughts?

[leebca]

The Chromis are very 'un-damsel-like' in how they treat other fishes. Between themselves they can be picky, but towards other fish they are usually very accommodating. I use them for dither fish.

My favs or the greens. They grow relatively slowly in the aquarium because most don't feed them quite right. They need smallish foods and don't tackle large chunks of food. If fed small foods quite often they can get to 4"+ 5 fish are usually considered the optimum number for 'schooling' however almost any number is possible. With 5 no one fish gets picked on too much.

They are easier and hardy, but some hobbyists find them surprising sensitive to water quality. Of those I've kept I'd say in general they don't do too well in water of high organics.

[Samper]

Do you feel that 5 4" adult fish on top of the others we have already discussed would be too much? I've never kept this many fish at one time and I'm slightly worried about the amount of food I will need to introduce into the system to keep them all healthy.

[leebca]

If you're going back to your first post then 5 more fish of that size would work well with that original list.

[Samper]

Lee,

I have my qt up and running as well as all the meds and kits I could need. I am ready to begin ordering the first fish additions. By the time they come out of QT the display will be ready.

How do you feel about this order for additions?

1. Algae blenny
2. Royal Grammas
3. Green Chromis
4. Flame Hawk
5. Clowns - still deciding on species
6. Kole Tang

I have no problem changing this as needed. Thank you.

[leebca]

A suggested change might be this order:

1.
3.
6.
5.
2.
4.

It would do well to attack the algae first, but also this is their anticipated temperament order (shy/reclusive first towards more assertive/predatory).

If 5. is an already mated pair, then I'd put them in last.

[Samper]

The first addition has arrived. After following Lees FW dip procedure the Salarias fasciatus is now in the qt. I did find a small....something in the bottom of the second bowl that could be some sort of fluke. I don't know but I'm going to take it up to the school and put it under a microscope. If it's anything I think you may want to see I will take and post pictures of it at that time.

[leebca]

I'm glad it worked out for you. Usually after it is in the FW whatever it is distorts beyond recognition after a couple of hours. But if you get any clear micrographs, please post.

[Samper]

It could have been in the bag but I don't believe so. I didn't notice it until about 15 minutes in the FW.

Here is the best I could do with the time I had.

[Samper]

Just so you can get your bearings a little. The pics were taken with a light microscope at 40X magnification.

I believe that the

First Pic is a side view of the anterior end.

Second pic is a dorsal view of the posterior end.

Third - Posterior

Fourth - Anterior

Fifth - Mid body


I've misplaced my microscale or I'd put that up for reference.

[leebca]

It has the general characteristics of an infecting/parasitic worm.

[Samper]

Any ideas?

[leebca]

Worm classification is beyond me. There are a few hundred different ones. They are often categorized by number of segments, mouth features, and other physical attributes, most of which are not shown in the photos.

[Samper]

Lee I still have a little while longer in qt and I have yet to get the blenny to eat. I have tried a few different veggie flakes omega one and formula two, algae on a clip and even some rods food. I can't find anything wrong with it and it isn't showing signs of malnutrition. I have removed leftover foods as you suggest but wonder if it isn't eating something when I'm not around. I would really like to see it eat something before qt is over. Any suggestions?

[leebca]

There are several different macro algae on the market. Try a variety, including nori from the Asian markets.

Try Spirulina flakes and pellets. Try different presentations: Food Presentation

Spend more time with the QT and you may find the fish eating.