[goblin072]

I purchased two fish at the same time from a Petco. They just got them in that day. One is a Flame angle and the other is a Sailfin Tang.

Yes I know its a no no to QT two fish in the same tank but since they both were in the same water at the LFS they probably have the same thing if anything.

Last week the Flame had what looked like tiny bubbles all over its body. It was late so I did not look at it very long. The next day I took a look and they were all gone. The fish was looking and acting normally so I figured I must be seeing things. A few days later the white spots are all over the fish again. Its covered from tail to mouth. Its also breathing heavy.

The sailfin looks perfect.

I am using copper sulfate (I had a bottle left over) I plan on switching to cupramine.

I did a fresh water dip for 15 minutes just to see if it would remove parasites from the gills.

I am not sure if this is ICH or Velvet. What does velvet look like?

Is the Sailfin immune? She looks perfect.

I plan to get some blennies in the future. Is copper too harsh for them?
I read that scaleless fish are copper intolerant. If true how does one deal with ICH on them?

[leebca]

Copper has many downsides, but fortunately different formulations have different advantages. To get the overview, you'll find this a good read: Copper - Treatment, Use, Problems

The main difference between the spots of Marine Ich and Marine Velvet are their size. Marine Ich spots look the size of the salt. Marine Velvet look the size of powdered sugar and are not very distinct (that is, it is difficult to distinguish one from another next to each other on the fish). This spread of spots give the fish a dusted appearance or a surface texture of velvet (hence it common name).

The Sailfin may be immune or resistant or both. Still you need to assume it is infected.

Remember the guide to quarantine fish separately is to also remove the stress of having another fish in the QT with them while they are being trained to eat and acclimating.

Cupramine will be okay for the Blennies.

What you heard about copper sulfate and scaleless fishes is true. Fortunately, Cupramine is one copper formula that can be used for scaleless fishes. If it is properly diagnosed, copper isn't the only treatment for Marine Ich. There is also hyposalinity. Have you read this post: Marine Ich - Myths and Facts

Dwarf Angels is a group of marine fishes that are also sensitive to copper and should only be treated with formulas like Cupramine.

[goblin072]

The freshwater dip must have done some good. I thought I woud find a floating fish today. It was pretty bad, laying on its side. Today the flame looks better and breathing looks far less labored.

The flame is a Dwarf so does sensitive mean its going to kill it?

I'm doing a 40% water change each day just in case there are any free swimming ICH.

Marine fish do seem to have ICH very often. I have never had any disease with 5 years of freshwater africans. This is my second time seeing ICH with marine fish.

[leebca]

The frequency of Marine Ich has been attributed to environmental changes to various waters where marine fish are collected. For the hobby, much depends upon what fishes are caught and housed with what fishes -- they trade diseases during such times.

In general, I see Marine Ich in about 20% of the general marine (laterally compressed) fish population, excluding the Tangs. You may just be a bit on the unlucky side. However, fish from a pet chain would probably have an increased risk of disease for a variety of reasons.

Copper sulfate, and chelated copper medications do kill Dwarf Angels at proper treatment concentrations. Not all will die. Like marine fish in general, some can survive and it also depends upon the actual/real concentration of copper present. There are a few variables which affect the outcome. I don't know all the variables in this case.

The water changes to remove free swimming parasites is an additional positive if the water is taken from the bottom of the bare QT and on any decorations. Even still, this is not 100% effective, only a plus.

I hope this turns out well for you and the fishes.

[goblin072]

Update on the flame angel. Well the copper plus fresh water dip seemed to clear up the ICH and improved its gill function.

But.... Now the flame seems to bulging a bit just behind the gills. There is a white appearance on its left side. Not like ICH but possibly bacteria maybe even copper burns.

As you said Flames are copper sensitive, what does it do to them vs other fish? Does it burn the skin?

Thanks!.

I took here out of the copper and put in a 10 gallon alone. Do they come back from effects of copper?

[leebca]

Copper poisoning in fish is much like heavy metal poisoning in people. That is, most of the damage is invisible to the unaided eye. Kidney and liver (and some other internal organs) are harmed. Gills can 'burn.'

The fish can't totally repair the internal damage. Its life is shortened (if the copper doesn't kill it outright). However, the fish can still live if it is being fed proper foods and given the best nutrition AND is free of the disease.