[reefbeginner]

Soooo! Long story short:
60 gallon tank, 80lbs live rock, FOWLR for now, tirckle down with air stone skimmer (I know, I'm upgrading to sump soon). We have a big maroon gold stripe, a yellow watchman goby, a canary wrasse (who has been burying himself for 2 days at a time lately...) and a pyjama cardinalfish.

We bought a flame angel from a very reliable LFS and only put it in QT for 1 day. I had watched it at the store for weeks it looked so healthy and the transport was very short. However, a few days later he had ich.

We got him out and into QT. Lowered salinity to 1.014ish and temp to 80.

Here is the boyfriend's theory: Ich is like the common cold

It will always be in the DT (or get put in there when we buy water, etc) so what we need to do is when we see it, take out fish for freq water changes in a QT. This will emaciate their population. If after 4-6 weeks no other fish in DT have shown ich and angel looks good, he can slowly be brought back up to matching params and returned to DT. If the other fish remain immune to the ich currently in the DT, it should die out after a cycle. I said if the ich remains in DT it will multiply and get worse and attack the most vulnerable fish or the first fish to get stressed. He says that is a symptom that we need to fix whatever stressed the fish out (water params, bossy maroon, etc). I said I don't think we have good enough water quality to count on health taking care of ich (we still have trace amonia, tank is very new, and I think our water will not get better till the sump/skimmer upgrade)

I don't mean to be so windy, bare (sp?... it's not bear... right?) with me.

Here is my theory: Careful QT means ich free

If we went with the totally strict QT process-4-6 weeks always and made our own salt water rather than buy it premade we could keep ich out of the tank. If we take all the fish out (which requires a new 29g tank since the 10g isn't enough for all of them and a sponge filter and a thermom, oh noes!) and let the tank be fishless for 8 weeks it will be ich free. If the fish in the QT get/have ich, they should be treated with proper hypo treatment- 1.09 with careful monitoring of ph and whatnot. This would require a refractometer (more spending? Oh NO!)

He doesn't like my plan because he says it is too costly and too dangerous. He says fish in hypo too long die of liver problems. He says he has read all that I have about hypo and just cause some 'forum junkies' give examples of hypo working, it isn't proof. I said hypo is safest form of CURING ich rather than just treating it- letting the fish fight it, etc, and he still insists it is very dangerous.

So if the angel and all other fish appear ich free after 6 weeks we put him back in and go along. If another outbreak occurs, he said he would consider my solution, but "couldn't afford it" *rolls eyes*
In the mean time if anyone in DT shows ich, we do it my way. hmph

can anyone give insight on this? If one of us has the wrong idea, can we be corrected? Is ich pretty much everywhere and in everyone's tank unless you are a nazi about QT? Is it worth it to try and perma-rid your tank of ich/possible to keep it out?

thanks
angry girlfriend

[leebca]

Sorry angry girlfriend.

After more than 100 years of studying Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) we know a lot about it. It is not like the common human cold in any respect.

The myths and truths are summarized in this post: Marine Ich - Myths and Facts

If boyfriend has an insight, publish a paper on it. I'm sure the world would be appreciative of learning something new about this disease.

My home display tanks have been Marine Ich free since 1970. That's almost 40 years and 1,500 fishes. If it was like a common cold, don't you think I'd have seen it by now? I use my quarantine process religiously: A Fish Quarantine Process.

The only failures I've found was in human errors, including but not limited to trusting others, cross contamination, errors in treatment, impatience, stupidity, mis-informed, mistakes, etc.

Where humans mostly err is believing it is gone when they can't see it. But as the above myths post indicates, we can only see one single stage of this parasite's life cycle and mostly, it stays in the fish's gills where no one can see it at any stage. The long quarantine is necessary for it to bloom and become visible so that it can be treated.

"Healthy in the LFS tank" is an oxymoron. If the tank is connected to other tanks then that fish is no healthier than when the last fish came into the system at the LFS. About the only thing an LFS can do is run copper in their system to hold a couple of diseases at bay long enough to sell the fish. The LFS doesn't prevent cross contamination, using nets in any tank, containers to hold fish in any tank water, splash overs, etc. It doesn't pay for them to do this.

In perspective, the LFS paid $ for the fish you paid $$ for and it, like an orange, is an expendable commodity.

[reefbeginner]

this is most helpful. I will find a less angry and sarcastic way to present my post and your response to him (your response wasn't angry or sarcastic :-) )

I do not think it would be too hard to keep our tank ich free. I will need a new little QT, a new HOB filter (or sponge filter seeded from sump) and then a refractometer.

My final question is could buying premade SW bring ich in? Can buying RO water and mixing your own salt in have ich in it?

You're awesome Dr Lee ;-) I would love to know about So Cal marine clubs you are in or any really good LFS

[leebca]

I'm heading out in a few minutes to our monthly So. CA Marine Aq Soc (SCMAS) meeting. I do so much travel for work that I can only attend about 1/3 of the meetings.

You'll get some information from this post: WATER - Source and NSW.

There is always some risk of getting disease from sea water. There is a very low risk of this, however. It is a higher risk that the sea water may have pollutants in it. Should one not buy sea water because of these risks? I'd have to say I would not risk it myself. I wouldn't risk my perfect record. And, like I mentioned, NSW off the coast is more likely to contain contaminants than disease.

Salt mixes offer a slight advantage in that they can come fortified with ingredients we know are needed in excess of natural sea water for our captive marine life.

Marine Ich can't live when it dries out. Dried salt mix won't carry/sustain any of the parasite stages that are off the fish. RO water can't sustain any of the parasite stages that are off the fish, for more than an hour or so.

A 'good LFS' is almost another oxymoron. They are in business and we can't complain about that. But fish are a commodity and an inexpensive one at that. Once they have sold the equipment and tanks, all they make money from is salt and marine life. The buyer has to be alert and informed and skeptical to succeed.

When buying fish, this may help:
Is The Fish Healthy?

Good luck!