[vaporize]

Hi LEE,

I have recently removed a bluestripe clownfish from my display due to aggression (it's being harass by a skunk clown that is 1/4 of its size, but it's a meanie). It has been with me for > 2 years in the display tank and eating well (during harassment and hiding period also). The display tank has a minor episode of ich, the blue tang shows ich spot (3-5 spots) from time to time but all other fish does not has any spot on the body nor they scratch gill, so I suspect there might be ich in the tank or fish gills but never serious enough to blow out.

I move it to a bucket with LR and it continues to eat and do well except the fins are damaged.

Then I moved it to my QT with another blue stripe clown that is 2X its size to prepare for pair-off. The large clownfish had been in the QT for just about a month and previously treated for brook (upon first introduction but cleared of signs after 2 days, it was sick at the LFS and I know the LFS owner cannot treat it due to knowledge, so I took a chance).

I seperated the pair by eggcrate and there was some face-off during the first few days but the aggression stopped. It has been about 1.5 week since I introduce the smaller one with the big one and there is no more fighting. However the small one has stopped eating 3-4 days ago and start to show symptoms of fast breathing & some scratching of the gills today. I immediate think of parasite (brook/ich/velvet), however I do not see any of the serious signs on it (no mucus, slime, ich spot, velvet spot, loose skin), and only symptom is fast breathing and not eating. The large fish show no sign of those symptoms.

I performed a 60% water change yesterday but showed no improvements. Today I have put in 1 teaspoon of formalin3 (as per Kordon's direction) into the 10G QT and also 1 teaspoon of malachite green & 1 mL cupramine as preventive measure.

Attached is a video that shows the breathing rate of the fish and it is comparable to serious infection of brook/velvet. However there is no other external symptoms on the body.

I am wondering if this can be of bacterial nature? Since alot of diseases also cause the rapid breathing response and it is very unusal for an aquarium-lived clownfish to stop eating just like that.

YouTube - breathing problem? ich/velvet? or bacterial?

[leebca]

That was a very informative, thorough, and helpful post. Wish I got as much information like that for most questions!

You are correct in that fast breathing is a common symptom to many parasites, disease, and even conditions. It is almost impossible to differentiate between the causes on just this one symptom.

In the video I see the fish with its fins clamped down. Many Anemonefish show this, but not for that length of time. The fish is definitely stressed. In the video I think I also saw the fish flash once.

If it is a disease/parasite/pathogen, then the other fish has it, too. I would perform a 10 minute freshwater dip according to these recommendations: Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes

Then, after, look closely at the bottom of the dip/bath water. Can you see any tiny (dead) organisms? This would be a way of determining if the problem is Marine Velvet. Marine Ich won't come off the fish and be visible by this technique.

Since you know you have Marine Ich in the system, I would stop adding the chemicals to the water, removed the medications, and perform a hyposalinity treatment, unless you suspect (from the above dip/bath) that Marine Velvet is there. If you suspect MV then get rid of the other chemicals and just treat with Cupramine and use a Salifert Copper Test Kit to monitor the copper content.

Whatever you do, medicate both fish, but just give the obviously ill one the FW dip/bath.

Ask if you have further questions. Please keep us informed.

[vaporize]

Thank you very much for the detail response Lee, always appreciated.

OMG, I think I need to beg for another alternative to FW dip. FW dip always scare me alot and this time isn't helping.

So in short, the affected fish is in shock and so am I. I think it came out in worst conditions than before.

So here is the long story:
I prepare water for FW dip.
(1) Get aged RODI from my food-grade container, around 1L
(2) put it into tank to equalize the temperature
(3) Measure pH of QT (8.0-8.1 with Mauiwakee handheld pH meter), then after the water equalized temperature after 1 hr, put in baking powder till it is 8.0-8.1. Then take small amount of water to heat up a few degrees in microwave. Put back heated water and measure pH again 8.0
(4) Put in affected fish, and put in 2 drops of methylene blue (forgot to put in)
(5) fish for the first 3 minutes lay sideways, breathing fast as before, then at the 4-5th minute, it stands backup vertically but lay at the bottom. During this time and up to 10 minutes, it tries to jump out multiple times but hit the eggcrate cover.
(6) I check on it at 10 minutes time and it lay vertically breathing hard at the bottom
(7) At 15 minutes, suddenly I see that it lay horizontally at the bottom and stop breathing, body all whiteish.
(8) So I immediately rust to take it back out and put it back into the QT (which is by then at 1.010 refractometer reading, with the larger clownfish).
(9) It is motionless and with very minor jerking action but gills isn't moving at all, so I was so desperate, I decided to start CPR on it. I hold it vertically in my hands close to the water top, and use a turkey baster to squeeze water into its mouth to help it breathing again.
(10) After 2 minutes (or it seems forever), it starts to slowly resume some very very slow breathing, so I continue to give a bit less CPR water squeezing.
(11) After 5 minutes, it has very minor movement but cannot swim, so I slowly put it back at the bottom near the sponge filter. However it cannot stand back up vertically or swim.
(12) I decided to give it more air by putting an airstone close to his mouth to give it more air, so I tilt it sideways and mouth close to the air stone & bubbles.
(13) At the end of the evening, it is resumed breathing fast (not as fast as before), but laying sideways near the airstone. I wrap the tank in dark, so stress it less. Hopefully it will recover.
(14) As for the QT, I put in 2 cupful of seachem prime in to help with slime coat production, I also seperated the two fish by a stroafoam barrier to decrase additional stress that might cause by the bigger clownfish (as they are not a true pair). Water kept at 1.010 salinity.

I did not add any new medication into the QT tank again, should I?

It seems there is something flawed with my FW dip procedure or this is just a very scary procedure to me. As last time I put my fish in, they reacted similiarly where the healthy fish come out much worst. Is there an alternative to using such procedure, I am desperate and really scare of using FW unless necessarily. Aside from tank raised clownfish, all my wild caught specimens tend to react very poorly to the procedure whether they are healthy or not.

Would an hour bath in just methylene blue enough to do harm to parasites as suppose to use a 30 min FW dip? I rather not try FW dip again.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[vaporize]

Also, I read your FW dip post over twice and seems like FW dip is good for dealing with flukes & other parasites. Just wondering if I can just use hikari prazipro and/or metro together to rid of those parasite as suppose to use FW dip?

[leebca]

The purpose of doing the FW dip was not to cure the fish, but to determine if there was Marine Velvet on the fish. Did you inspect the FW for any signs of dead things? What did you find?

The MB (step 4.) can't be added on top of the fish. It has to be in the water at the correct concentration before the fish goes in.

I also specified that you wanted to perform a 10 minutes FW dip (not the 30).

You need to practice getting the water right and prepared. It should be no more difficult that making a proper water change. You need to develop some confidence with this procedure. I'd say a million people have performed FW dips over the last several decades and I'm sure you can. I have a lot of experience, I know, but I've done the full 30 minutes on $1000. fishes of a very delicate nature without problems.

Anyway, I'm hoping this will help, not make you feel badly.

I'm still trying to figure out what is going on. At this point, without further information the only thing to do is approach the matter without diagnosis, and a 'shotgun.'

Do a large water change. Get chemicals out of the tank. Treat the fish with Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes and Cupramine. Control the water quality closely. Double the initial dose of Maracyn Two at the outset/first dose only. Control the copper concentration at 0.3 to 0.5 ppm using the Salifert Copper Test Kit. Then hope you stumbled on the solution.

Finally, keep in mind that this could the end of this fish's life from previous disease exposure, other stressors, etc. When a fish is exposed to stressors like disease and captivity that it doesn't fully acclimate to, longevity is lost.