[efinjammin]

I just recently purchased a tang. My water parameters are all good. It seems that this new addition is unable to close his mouth. Is there anyone out there that might know what this problem is ?

[efinjammin]

Wow , I came across this site while searching out answers to my problem. What an incredible place . This is a must bookmark web addy for us marine hobbiest . Here is the link
FISH DISEASE

[leebca]

National Fish Pharmaceuticals has been around for quite some time. They specialize in pond and fish farming products. I recommend some items to purchase from them, but most often they sell in large quantities and as alluded to above, mostly to the freshwater community.

You are requesting help with a fish concern and you've come to the right place. However, you have not provided enough information for us to be of much help. The quality of help is directly related to the quantity and accuracy of the information you can provide. If you can provide all the following information, you'll get the best answers to your questions:

How old is your tank? When did it originally cycle?
What is the size (dimensions and gallonage) of your aquarium? Does the gallonage include the volume from the sump and any refugium?
Do you use carbon, skimmer, mechanical or other chemical filtration? What are you using for a biological filter? (E.g., live rock (indicate pounds), bio-balls, trickle, etc.).
List all specimens & sizes in the tank (fish, inverts, corals, clams, snails, crabs, shrimp, etc.).
Do you use a quarantine tank and procedure?
How long have you had this fish? If the fish was recently acquired (6 weeks or less), two more questions: Did you treat it or give it a dip before it went into the aquarium? How did you acclimate it – what procedure?
Exactly what kind of fish (scientific name) is this and what is its length (nose to base of tail in inches)?
Do you use any elemental or other additives? Please list all.
Where did the fish come from? Did you obtain it from a local fish store? If so what did it look like before you acquired it? Did it come from mail order? Is there a guarantee on this fish from the LFS or online source? What is it?
Chemistries – you gave none. Do you test for Phosphate, alkalinity, calcium and magnesium? Please give actual current numbers for everything. This data must be from test kits, not dip sticks. Have these numbers been changing lately?
Water parameters – please give actual numbers (pH and your pH range, salinity or sp. gr. & range, temperature range)
Do you see any of the following in your system: hair algae; micro algae; cyanobacteria growths (red slime algae); dinoflagellate (zooxanthellae) growths; brown algae; diatom growth; slimes; off-colored patches on rock or substrate that are not coralline; etc.?
Water changes (how much and how often).
What is your source water? (Tap water, RO water, DI water, RO/DI, distilled, etc.)
List what you added or taken out of your aquarium system (living, decorations, and equipment) during the past 6 weeks.
Maintenance schedule. What have you done lately?

The goal here is for us to know as much about your marine system and this fish as you do, and even some information you may not have noticed without responding to the above questions.

Ideally, we would like to see a current photo of this fish. Up close. Fill the picture frame with the fish. Show the mouth clearly in a close up.

[efinjammin]

Thanks Leee , here is what I have in my 29 gallon bio cube .Replaceable two-stage filtration cartridge. Uses mechanical and chemical filtration , Poly-Woven pre-filter to trap free-floating materials and waste , Activated carbon inside to remove odors and discoloration . Integrated wet/dry biological filtration ,1 Coralife 10,000K 36Watt Compact Fluorescent lamps, 1 Coralife Actinic 36Watt Compact Fluorescent lamps , 3 ¾ Watt Lunar Blue, Moon Glow LED lights . Dual filter intakes one to skim the surface and one on the bottom . Sealed light lens cover , 316 GPH submersible pump with adjustable discharge nozzle. 1 small fluval running carbon only . A 35 gallon bio life trickle filter , skimmer & finaly one oscilating power head & a small wave maker. My subtrate is crushed coral @ 10 pounds & @ 25 pounds of live rock. 1 leather coral ( thriving ) 1 mandarin goby ( girl friends idea not mine ) 2 peppermint shrimp , 6 hermits , 12 snails , 1 feather duster & last but not least , my going concern a Kole yellow eyed tang (Ctenochaetus strigosus) .
I test with 2 differant kits. Instant oceans for ammonia , ph , Nitrite & nitrate. All levels are fine however I was having a problem with ammonia which has been resolved. It seems that people have been feeding & not telling me. this also caused a red hair algae outbreak which after a talk with the familly about feedings. It has been for the most part resolved. I test Calcium , KH , phosphate along with Nitrate with aquarium pharmaceutical test kit. Calcium sits @ 440 - 460 & ph @ 8.0 . all other parametera are great. This tank cycled 4 months ago & I have a had a good population of copepods ( mandarin goby loves them ) My britle worm population is plentiful & I heard they are not a bad thing so I have left them alone. My live rock has plenty of life & although I am concerned about the green algae but it is not out of control. I have a great deal of good algae so my fingers are crossed that this will eventualy resolve itself. I hope this helps. I am not sure what else to include & my fingers are going numb from typing lol.
Thanks Greg

[efinjammin]

[leebca]

Thanks for the information. It all helps.

Your equipment is outstanding and top end. Congrats! But, that unfortunately (or fortunately?) has led to thinking the stocking of the aquarium is okay. It isn't in my opinion. The aquarium is overstocked. This display needs no more fish in there that will reach a total of 4" when they are adults, along with the other nitrogen waste producers you have. One Mandarin will be okay IF it has been trained to eat prepared foods (the pods in that aquarium are insufficient to keep the Mandarin healthy). I think if you haven't done this reading on Mandarin care, you really want to get to it:
Mandarin Diner by Marc Levenson - Reefkeeping.com
and this post in the section about Mandarins:
Food Presentation
and this post about stocking limits:
Fish Stocking Limit - for FO and FOWLR

If you'll read carefully the post about stocking limit, you'll see that even if the fish is small enough and creates a low bio-load, there are other considerations on how it should be housed. For an example pertinent to this situation -- the Kole Tang belongs in a 75 gallon aquarium until it gets over 2" long, then into a 125g. It needs to have a tank length that is at least 6 feet as it gets longer.

The Tang should produce large quantities of wastes when fed properly. It takes a larger system to handle this waste load.

I'm fairly confident your water quality is marginal considering the features you've mentioned. The tank is struggling to keep up with the bio-load. The fish should be fed 3 times a day all they want to eat yet the features of nuisance microbial life and algae should not be there in the long term. With their presence, there is still issues with water quality that maybe your test kits are not letting you know about. You might wish to read this post:
What is Water Quality for insights into other features of water quality.

Returning to the issues at hand. . .The fishes are stressed, no doubt from space and water quality, but marginally in water quality. If you want we can review the foods being fed, the quantity, and frequency of feedings. But you'll find what you need to implement nutritional feedings in this post:
Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

This fish may have a muscular or mouth plate malfunction. If the fish is eating, then it might likely right itself over time. If the fish is not eating, then it will likely starve to death without veterinarian care.

I would find a new home for the Tang if it is eating, and not replace this fish in that system.

[efinjammin]

Thanks Lee . Very good advice that is greatly appreciated. I will in fact find a new home for that Tang. The mandarin is new & I will in fact read up those posts that you left me. I am in the midst of breeding copepods for the mandarin. I would love to be able to put this mandarin on prepared food but read that this is tough. ( I love a challenge ) . When you say my bio load is too much , what would you consider ? I am wanting to add more coral , a couple inverterbrates along with some clowns. I love tangs but now realise that my tank is much too small for this. I am wondering if adding a refugium down the road might help . I guess although the bio cube is convenient , it is also limited in regards to what I keep.
While writting this I am looking at my tank. I'm thinking that I must make a choice , reef only or fish only . Am i beginning to get on the right track with my thinking ?
Thanks again
Greg p.s. I am feeding with flake & sometimes brine . The copepods need time to hatch , being ready to introduce into my tank for the mandarin.

[efinjammin]

I did read what you gave me Lee. I am a little dissapointed but I guess I really knew all along that I would have to be carefull. I easily got carried away. The bio load on my system is definately struggling & I obviously must rethink my options. Adding oxygen into my system is a no no so that would be useless & not very desirable having air bubbles all over. Corals do not give off waste but do require oxygen, Therefor I will have to be carefull about what I put into this tank. I am thinking that if I can get the goby to eat pellet food .It would be a nice to keep ,it will go along with the corals. I will keep the shrimp , clean up crew that I have & give up on the idea of more invertebrates for now. I appreciate your help & would love to get some more help with the feeding .
I guess this bio cube although nice & compact. It's going to need a lot more attention. There is always a silver lining. The silver lining in this case is that I am going to get a very good insight into maintaining a proper tank lol. This tank is going to need a lot of attention & monitoring forever . I'm glad that I love this hobby lol.
Greg

[leebca]

I think when your wrote. . .

I'm thinking that I must make a choice , reef only or fish only

you're getting closer to the truth of the matter. That sized display is limited for fishes. It would however make a good reef tank. Still, whatever you put in must have space to expand and grow.

Corals can be mean to other corals. Some just can't be put near each other because they launch a chemical warfare or send out stinging tentacles (usually at night). Be mindful of these considerations.

The 29g is right on the edge of being suitable for one pair of Anemonefish IF they are of the small kind. If for instance the Maroon Anemonefish captures your fancy, the female gets to over 6" in length and that pair, alone, would need at least a 40g aquarium. Personally, my choice would be 40 for the small pair and 50 for the larger pair rather than sticking with the minimums. But that's me.

If you do choose a pair of Anemonefish of the small kind, the Mandarin has to go. The pair will need the entire tank. Are you getting a handle on the limits of that system?

A refugium and sump adds water, stability, etc., but not space for the fish. We're talking space here. A refugium will add organics to the water, even though it is most famous for removing phosphates and nitrates.

Corals and sessile inverts contribute very little to nothing (depending on what they need to eat or live) to the nitrogen waste bio-load, so they are very suitable for this size aquarium. Mobile invertebrates (crabs, shrimp, snails, some carnivore anemones, etc.) add to the bio-load. Still, you want snails for sure. You can do without crabs. Shrimp are optional so long as they leave the corals alone.

You really don't want to turn to pellets. Read the link to fish nutrition on what it says about pellets. Those other posts and articles will give you ideas about feeding the Mandarin. If it is alone in the aquarium and the shrimp won't compete for its prepared foods, it should be easy to train the Mandarin, despite those who may say otherwise.

Keeping a Mandarin so that it thrives for the potential many years of healthy captive life can be very time consuming. This taken separately -- When the system is balanced with a lower bio-load it should require less attention and effort with the net result of fewer things going wrong.

[efinjammin]

Hi Lee
I read what you said & it all makes sense . I sit here watching the tank & get to thinking. I'm looking at all the pro's & cons. first of all , I have a lot of Live rock which allows for bacteris growth. Great for the bio load but that in turn takes away water capacity. My equiptment is ok , but it is only as good as it's maintained. Putting floss ahead of my main filter might help with constant filter changing , I'll have to experiment with that . Not having a great capacity of water is going to require frequent water changes. I hate disturbing the bacteria but it is a necassary evil. I am thinking of doing smaller changes more frequent instead of a big change less often. I can now see that although these nano's are conveniant as far as room & expense goes. In the long run, they really are not what they should be. I don't think they can ever come up with anything that will work either. The size is simply too small. It is impossible to cheat mother nature . All that being said , I am getting a great insight as to what I have to deal with. Simply put , I am limited & I am now use to this idea. So now my attention is going to mostly reef only. A couple of fish , as you said will work. I will follow that advice , I have to keep everyone in the house interested if they are going to learn. I therefor must have a few fish in there , simply to keep it interesting for others. I myself wanted a reef only tank , that was my reason for going the route that I did. Fact is Lee , I had my old set up but my lighting was never what it should of been. When I decided to get back into the hobby. I looked at the price of proper lighting. My entire set up was cheaper than lighting alone. Moral of the story is never spend a dollar to save a nickle lol. I think that if I can get this all straight & be able to teach everyone in the household the proper techniques to reef keeping. I will then need to upgrade , It's obvious that I am into something that always interested me. This tank will eventually make a great hospital tank , so it deffinately was never a waste of money. I would love to learn how to teach this mandarin to accept pepared food. I actually like this fish , It's kind of interesting to watch it. Oh yes by the way , I rearranged my tank ( hate disturbing it ) I made a place for copepod growth without having them disturbed. Anyway Lee , dinner is calling. Talk soon I hope

greg