Can you help my Emperor angel??

[black71gp]

I have had this guy for three years.. from 3/4" he has always been healthy untill the last few days.. noticed him acting weird in the tank.. sitting on the bottom.. running into things.. missing food.. swimming backwards a lot... so i was able to reach in and grab him and put him in a QT set up.. and got a few pics.. visually he looks fine.. belly doesnt look very bloated.. what medications would help treat him.? here are a few pictures





Thank you

Jarrod

[leebca]

WELCOME TO REEFLAND JARROD!

It usually isn't a mystery why a fish goes off its food. What usually happens is that the hobbyist has created a captive life that is (for some reason) less than the fish requires.

The typical causes of this fish to stop eating:
1. Not getting the right nutrition (I note the fish doesn't have as large an energy reserve as it should);
2. Space stressed (they need at least a 180 gallon display when 3-4" and when 5" a 300 g. Then at 6" and above a 500g display tank;
3. Environmental problems (tank-mates, (one is space taken up in 2.), swimming room, places to comfortably hide from everyone/everything, etc.);
4. Long term medium water quality -- these require high quality water in the long run; and
5. Disease, injury, illness, poisoning (bad shot of tap water or treated water or contaminant/pollutant getting into the tank), etc. which may be related to 1. and 2.

These fish, because of their demand for space in their environment should be kept in very large aquariums when they show their adult pattern/coloration.

Since I basically don't know anything else about your marine system, I can't point you in the best direction for what is happening in this case. You're the best detective for that unless you want to provide a long list of information.

Since the fish is in quarantine, which is a good idea by the way, treat the fish with Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish just in case the problem is a minor infection. It needs to be the formula for Saltwater fish because that contains an appetite stimulate in the formula, which the Two for Freshwater fish doesn't contain.

Review the diet, water quality, and space issues closely. Observe the fish for any signs of item 5.

[black71gp]

thanks

Tank is 315gallon.. attached to a 900 gallon lagoon.. with everything total water volume is around 1100 gallon.. skimmer is large dart needle wheel.. over 100 gallons in capacity. tank mates are mostly tangs.. which have remained the same for a long while. the only issues i have noticed were the ones i mentioned swimming sideways and backwards and just not acting normal. diet is nori, mysis, mixed pellet, other frozen foods. he has tons of hiding and open spots, he is only around 4" at the moment. since he is in QT i will try to find some saltwater marycn 2.. everyplace around here only has freshwater.. ok well thanks i will keep an eye on him and check for any other signs. but the laying sideways and weird swimming is what makes me worried.. thanks for your help.

[black71gp]

oh.. and its not really a loss of appetite.. its more the lack of being able to eat.. he sees the pellets floating on the bottom of the QT tank and tried to get them but misses cause he is sideways or cant get them.. he gets one out of every 5 that he tries.

[Poseidon]

Lee, maybe this will help you with Jarrods system. I was able to take some pictures about a year ago.

His Skimmer!


His "SUMP"/ Lagoon!
]

And a link to the rest:
Perfect Pix Photography- powered by SmugMug

[leebca]

Thanks Jarrod and Poseidon. I'm getting a better understanding of the concerns. The behavior is associated with the slow onset of lethargy. Unfortunately, it is a common symptom of many pathogens, afflictions, and nutritional deficiencies.

Regarding foods, I know your fish are well settled into the diet, but I would stop using pellets (including flakes) any more than 5% of the overall feedings. They carry binders made of wheat and wheat products which marine fish don't/can't digest. It goes through them and feeds the bacteria. Replace with more and a wider variety of frozen foods. Probably already used in your 'frozen' foods, but just a reminder: This angel does like a krill treat now and then, at that fish size. Just be sure it is whole and small enough. The fish should also relish a whole clam opened on the half-shell (properly prepared), and ocean plankton. Be sure to use a vitamin supplement with the diet.

Still go with the Maracyn Two in case it is an internal bacteria problem (which these Angels seem to attract). The swimming peculiarity can be a result of a bacterial infection.

Has there been any (fish or invert) deaths recently? any additions to the system recently? (By 'recently' I mean the last 6-8 weeks). Any changes to the system itself during the past couple of months?

What is in the lagoon? Corals? I'm a bit concerned about this combo with a fish that is very sensitive to water quality. So many corals and inverts release toxins into the water. In the ocean and seas, this isn't a concern to fishes, but in captive life, this can be a problem. Nothing to do about this, though. If the quarantine water is not associated with the lagoon, and the lagoon is an issue, and if you will perform some large water changes in the quarantine tank using only the best source water and your salt mix, then the fish would respond well. Try doing two or three large water changes, one per day of water that is not associated at all with the lagoon.

Besides the skimmer are you using any carbon or other organic removing media?

[black71gp]

I try to only use pellets for snacks during the day when i walk by.. i toss a few in.. nori at night at least a full sheet a day and then a bit of a frozen mix... I also toss in squid not and then when I feed the sharks and rays.. who currently live in the lagoon... one eppie, two coral cats, and two small yellow rays.. then live rock and a fuge with lots of cheato is part of the lagoon.. the main tank is full reef.. which the emp is a great citizen because i have raised him fed very well since he was 3/4 " long..

Ok will try to find the maryracn two for saltwater.. every local store i have called only has it for freshwater.. that is what i have as well.. might have to order it online..

i am not really worried about anything from the lagoon hurting the main tank.. nitrates are kept low with a denitrator, and only ROwater is used for top off..

there were some recent fish additions from another reefers tank in our club who was taking down her tank... they are all fine along with all my other fish... thanks I will keep looking for the medication to treat him and hope he can pull through..