I think that my swallowtail has lymphocystis, whats next ???

[badazztealcobra]

I bought a trio of swallowtail angels (1 male, 2 female of course) for my 180g display and it looks like one of the females has lymphocystis. Atleast thats what I believe it is based on what Ive seen in some pictures and descriptions.

Heres a few pictures to see what some of you think....




You can see the spots on the back bottom fin and the tail. Also a spot on the top fin that might be it as well. They almost look like grains of salt on the fish itself. I like to QT a few fish at a time so that I wont take 3 years to stock my tank (although now reading on your site, BAD idea...), so theres currently the trio of angels and a onyx clownfish being QT'ed before going into the tank. If this is lymphocystis, do all the fish in the QT with this fish now have it and none can go into my display ??? I've read that there is no cure for this disease, is it not worth the risk to put any of these fish into my display, or should the other fish not showing signs still be okay to go in after the QT period is up ???

Any suggestions or anything for me ???

EDIT - I forgot to add that I just observe the fish for the first week in QT, then they get 2 weeks of dosing with Seachem Paraguard in the tank, then if all is well into the display tank.

[leebca]

I don't support the quarantine process you are using. This is what I recommend: http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine...e-process.html

Another article on quarantine you may find interesting:
An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

No known cure if it is Lymphocystis, but I’ve known the Neon Blue Goby (Elacatinus oceanops) to actually eat it off of some fishes. This is rarely fatal IF the hobbyist takes positive action. This is a virus and usually hangs around the fish. Fishes that are weak or not getting the proper nutrition or are under considerable stress (or a combo of these) are susceptible to this infection.

Remove as much stress from the fish as you can and be sure to be feeding it properly. Get it on the right nutrition with vitamin and fat supplements. See this post on nutrition:
Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition

It is believed to be easily transmitted to other fishes, but it depends on their energy reserve (how fat they are), their response to the stressors, and general health. I'd keep all the fish in quarantine until this condition is controlled. Control it through diet and vitamin supplements and as noted above, the removal or significant reduction of all stressors (including the presence of other fish in the quarantine tank).

[badazztealcobra]

Thanks for the fast response. Im going to have to try to figure something out. I know you say that each fish should be in its own tank, but thats just not feasable in my house, I just dont have the room for it. I should realistically pull all the fish out of my DT and hypo them for 6 weeks as well if this is the case, and I would need to buy 14 tanks, 14 heaters, 14 sponge filters, god only knows how many sponge filter replacements, etc...

Any other suggestions as to how to pull this off ???

[leebca]

Sorry. We have a miscommunication here. That is one of the problems with having to communicate in this medium.

I did not mean to quarantine ALL your fishes (including the ones now in your display system). Nor did I mean for you to quarantine them separately. One issue I don't support besides quarantining fish together is how short of time you are performing the process. It should be longer.

I was under the impression that you had a few fish now in quarantine and one was exhibiting the signs of Lymph. Keep this group of fish in quarantine until all fish in quarantine no longer show signs of Lymph.

Do not remove the fish already in the display system.

If the fish in the display system are showing signs of Lymph, they do not need to be removed into a QT. As mentioned in my previous post, the way forward to curing the condition is to remove or significantly reduce stressors on the fish and improve their diet, including the addition of fat and vitamin supplements.

Not putting the fish quarantined with the fish showing Lymph into the display system is just good practice. Lymph can and is communicable between fishes, but you can reduce or prevent its spread by removing stressors and improving the fishes' diet.

[badazztealcobra]

Yeah, I guess most of it is my fault for taking a vendors word as their product will kill off every parasite including ich if used while the fish are in QT for 2 weeks. Today, it came back to bite me. I just looked in my tank and it looks like my purple tang is showing spots on him, so im thinking it's ick. Im about to go crazy now.

I have too many fish to setup multiple tanks, it would be just way too much for that many tanks. Would I be able to setup a large stock tank on my floor and do either a hypo/copper treatment on all fish in the display and just leave the tank fallow for 2 months while the fish are in the stock tank ???

[badazztealcobra]

Lee, here's a pic of my purple tang that is in the display... Im guessing ich but would like your opinion...

Let me know what you suggest since I dont have the room to put a bunch of small tanks around here... I could probably pull off a 90g for QT and hypo or copper everyone, but thats about it.

The camera is HORRIBLE and this is the best picture I could get, I hope it will help....

[leebca]

That's the way to go under the circumstances. One large hospital tank for treatment of all the fishes at the same time for Marine Ich.

The Tang is infected with Marine Ich as far as I can tell.

The 2 months fallow is the right plan. Check out the stickies for help and instructions.

[badazztealcobra]

Is there much difference as far as success rate between copper and hypo ??? I hear about "hypo-resistant" strains of ich, and would like to knock it out for sure... Well as close to for sure as possible. Would 2 weeks in copper, then 6 weeks QT be better than 8 weeks of hypo ???

Im looking at getting a 125 tank for QT... Im going to lose the ise of my dining room for 2 months, but that's not a huge deal, we'll just have to have the weekly poker game somewhere else. HAHA

Also, does Cupramine ruin the tank if you use it ??? I'm thinking this might be the best route to go for me, but would like to be able to sell the 125g once im done with using it as a QT tank. Its hard to sell a tank thats had copper in it though.

Not sure if any of these are copper sensitive, so maybe my stocking list would affect it....

(2) Onyx clownfish (pair but too young to mate still)
(3) Lyretail Anthias (1 male, 2 females)
(1) Midas blenny
(1) Fridmani pseudochromis
(1) Radiant Wrasse
(1) Purple tang
(1) Powder blue tang
(4) Bangaii cardinal

I also have the trio of swallowtails that started this thread, but I am going to put them all in seperate QT tanks (40B for the male and 10g for each smaller female) until the lympho clears up and have them also go through a copper or hypo treatment.

Thank you for all your help so far leebca, I really appreciate it.

[leebca]

The successes of both treatments favor the copper only slightly. I believe it is because there are some hobbyists that miss the last sign of the parasites and the occasional parasite that hides in the gills and is not actually a 'skin' parasite. The latter is very rare. Either process should be fine, but not perfect. Each should provide a greater than 99% chance of success.

Cupramine will be fine for that list of fishes.

After a copper treatment, the tank will be contaminated with copper. However, it can be rid of residual copper if you follow a specific cleaning regime. I can provide that if you will use copper.

You're welcome!