Sick Fish, Please help!

[tuck1989]

Just got my first fish for my first saltwater tank six days ago. It's a small (1.5 inch) Banggai Cardinal. Acclimation seemed to be going well, he began eating frozen mysis shrimp after the first day, and I feed him live shrimp as well. He seemed to try to eat pellet food but it seemed too big/sank too quickly, so I bought flake food instead. He ate that a little. He hasn't eaten much in the last two days and he is now laying in the live rock (breathing about 100 times per minute). Just before that he was lying in the sand in the front corner of the tank. Immediately before laying down on the rock he briefly went up to the surface of the tank. Earlier today I saw him swimming into the corner by, around and behind the heater. He seems nervous during the day but he comes out at night. A lot of the attempted feedings have ended up on the ground, which I am concerned have been polluting the water, but all levels I can test seem normal and I didn't want to add to its stress level by vacuming/changing the water yet again.

I don't use ro or di water, but I live in manhattan, and having looked at the water survey's I don't see any high levels of contaminants.

It's a 20 gallon tank.
Ammonia levels are 0 ppm. Nitrates at 20-25 ppm (difficult to tell with my kit).

pH 8.4
salinity 10.024
filtration: power filter, bak pak 2r+ skimmer, and a small sponge filter (that was added two days ago to eventually be transfered to my cycling qt tank). I also have about 20 pounds of live rock.

Cycling completed successfully two weeks ago (the tank was initially set up just before new years but I then had to transport everything down here. I checked the cycle by adding clear ammonia. Since then I have done numerous 10-20% water changes using the necessary de-clorinator and allowing the water to age for at least a couple of days.

I've also noticed that his excrement seems stringy and white, but having never had this type of fish I don't know if that's normal or not.

Please let me know what you think, and if there's anything I've messed up that can be rectified!

Thanks so much,
Charlie

[tuck1989]

Oh, and forgot to mention, tank temperature has been consistently 78. Nitrite also measures either very little (like .1) or zero, but difficult to tell with this crappy test kit. He also shares the tank with two scarlet hermit crabs, who both seem ok.

Also, has now moved back to the sandbed and is sitting upright on it breathing heavily.

Yet another note is that I used what I thought was a safe non-ammonia based cleaner on the exterior glass by spraying it into a paper towel away from the tank. The cleaner contained no phosphorus, but did contain glycerine, corn based ethanol, and something called alkyl polyglucoside.

[leebca]

Not sure how old your tank is, but for this fish, the tank should have matured and should be no less than 6 months old. Have you seen this post? Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium

Salinity seems wrong. Since nitrites do show up now and then, then you have some poisons in the water for sure. Please read this post: What is Water Quality.

I'd say the fish was poisoned and may additionally be stressed by being in a tank that isn't mature. You might want to read this, also: The Mature Aquarium

The saddest news of all is that that sized tank isn't very good to keep marine fish in. That sized tank is best for a small marine reef tank. It can hold only one fish that remains very small (like 2" or less when full grown).

A lot of reading to do and in that reading you will find what may have gone wrong.

The corrective action is to move the fish to a better place -- like where you got it from -- until water quality and tank maturity have been achieved on a continual basis.

[tuck1989]

Hi,
Thank you for your response. Unfortunately the fish passed on last night before I was able to move him. I am very curious to know exactly what might have been the cause. Salinity in my post was a typo 1.024. I've read/been told that a good Salinity is in the range of 1.023-1.025. Why would that salinity be an indicator of poisons, and if so what poisons would I have been looking for? Also please note that my two hermit crabs appear to be fine. Also, just on an intellectual level, I don't fully understand why it is necessary to wait six months before a tank is considered sufficiently mature for life? I've been using fully cured rock, the tank had successfully cycled, and water parameters have been very stable since that cycle completed.

Thank you for your time,
Charlie

P.S Just read your post on water quality. Clearly I've missed some things in this process, but I've been pretty diligent with ph tests, and have seen only very minor changes after 20% water changes. My other question is that if I was doing water changes every day or so, would that not have aleviated some of these organics? I also was using two separate filters with activated carbon. Does the average lfs test water for any of these pollutants beyond the usual Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, ph?

[leebca]

The post on a Mature Aquarium should answer most of your questions. The short answer is that ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, (the cycle as you call it) is only a very small part of the bigger picture. The system goes through many cycles and adjustments. Many fishes can't handle these changes.

I was not relating the (specific gravity, not salinity as it now seems) to poisons. "Poisons" I use to include ammonia, nitrites, silica, phosphates, and a few thousand things we and your LFS don't test for (e.g., heavy metals, sulfides, pesticides, fertilizers, etc.). These can sneak in from your source water.

What source water are you using? More to read: WATER - Source and NSW

Part of the maturing process is to allow the live rock, base rock, substrates, new equipment in contact with the water, etc. to release anything harmful it may hold. Water changes will help, but as long as these things still leach/add things to the water, it can only help so much. It is time that works in the hobbyist's favor.

So even if poisons are not part of the event, it takes time to guarantee the water quality remains high and steady. In this particular case the indication of at least the coming and going of nitrite readings means the cycle isn't complete and at least that poison is present.

Even an occassional reading of the deadly poison nitrite will cause a fish to slowly die.

A really good, steady, environment for marine fishes comes with several months of maturing. Most hobbyists aren't told this at the point of sale. But you'll find a key word used very frequently in this hobby: patience.

The cleaning agent you used, should not be a problem.

What affects invertebrates (like hermit crabs) does not necessarily affect marine fishes, and vice versa.

Good luck!