Clown Fish Trouble - swimming at the top of the tank and is wrinkly around face

[phiphilevup]

i had this clown fish and its been about 3 weeks since i added him in. i had 2 seahorses in the the tank before i had him. they were living peacefully and happily together. thank goodness. (i know, seahorses and clowns together? NO! NO! but i couldn't resist.) i then after a week added a red firefish goby and a fromia starfish. they were all happy together. then i started to worry that my tank wasnt big enough. its only 60litres. then for some unexpected reason after another week, my female seahorse died. the night before it was eating soo well. it look soo much healthier than my male seahorse. her colour was a lot brighter and everything. ammonia in my tank is always 0. nitrite is always 0. and my nitrate is around 15. my ph level is around 8.2. i had my tank for about 2 months before my seahorse died. everything was perfect. the water i used was already cycled and was from the aquarium i bought the set up tank from. i have no clue whats so ever on how she died.

now one of my clown fishes, the male, is not looking normal. he looked all happy after the female claims dominance. he hasnt been eating. he looks really skinny and it looks like he has wrinkles. he has been swimming around the top of the tank alot. i gave him a fresh water dip but then i got scared after a minute. so i put him back into the tank. he just lid on his side breathing really fast in the fw dip. he is still swimming at the top of the tank. do u know what could be wrong with him?

oh and is my tank too crowed? 1 starfish (4cm), 2 small clowns, 1 red firefish goby, 1 seahorse.

thanks,
phi

[phiphilevup]

oh, i also have to mention that everything in my tank is tank raised. not wild caught.

please im desperate for answers :'(

phi

[leebca]

WELCOME TO REEFLAND!

You have fallen into a very common trap in this hobby -- the sense of well being while all along everything was pointing towards an upcoming disaster.

Some observations and recommendations, from the information so far provided:

1. The tank was not allowed to mature. You need to read (and follow) this recommendation: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium Even if you are not starting a FOWLR aquarium, this procedure is solid.

2. The fishes have been added too quickly for that size aquarium. Assuming a large tank, the fish are added about one every 6 to 8 weeks -- max.

3. The 60 liter (about 15 gallon) tank is unsuitable for almost any fish. It is super overstocked. A 15 gallon tank is good for a reef tank, without any fish or just one tiny fish that remains tiny its whole life.

4. A pair of Anemonefishes will need about a 120 liter tank IF they are one of the very small species. Get the picture?

5. If you really want to keep marine fish, you'll need to setup a quarantine process (after getting a larger tank). BTW, the 15 gallon tank you now have would make a good quarantine tank. Please read this: A Quarantine Process (step-by-step).

You'll benefit from doing a lot more reading and learning. These are some posts that will put you on the right track:
The Mature Aquarium
Fish Stocking Limit - for FO and FOWLR
What is Water Quality.

The corrective action you need to take now is. . .find a new home for all the current fish inhabitants of the aquarium and reconsider what you want from this hobby -- a reef tank or a fish tank or a combo of the two. Once you decide what you want, then consider the types of marine life forms you want to keep. Then finally, start shopping for the appropriately sized system. If money is your restriction, then consider just a small reef tank with what you have, OR determine the size you can afford then choose the marine lifeforms that are suitable for that environment.

Good luck!

[phiphilevup]

WELCOME TO REEFLAND!

You have fallen into a very common trap in this hobby -- the sense of well being while all along everything was pointing towards an upcoming disaster.

Some observations and recommendations, from the information so far provided:

1. The tank was not allowed to mature. You need to read (and follow) this recommendation: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium Even if you are not starting a FOWLR aquarium, this procedure is solid.

2. The fishes have been added too quickly for that size aquarium. Assuming a large tank, the fish are added about one every 6 to 8 weeks -- max.

3. The 60 liter (about 15 gallon) tank is unsuitable for almost any fish. It is super overstocked. A 15 gallon tank is good for a reef tank, without any fish or just one tiny fish that remains tiny its whole life.

4. A pair of Anemonefishes will need about a 120 liter tank IF they are one of the very small species. Get the picture?

5. If you really want to keep marine fish, you'll need to setup a quarantine process (after getting a larger tank). BTW, the 15 gallon tank you now have would make a good quarantine tank. Please read this: A Quarantine Process (step-by-step).

You'll benefit from doing a lot more reading and learning. These are some posts that will put you on the right track:
The Mature Aquarium
Fish Stocking Limit - for FO and FOWLR
What is Water Quality.

The corrective action you need to take now is. . .find a new home for all the current fish inhabitants of the aquarium and reconsider what you want from this hobby -- a reef tank or a fish tank or a combo of the two. Once you decide what you want, then consider the types of marine life forms you want to keep. Then finally, start shopping for the appropriately sized system. If money is your restriction, then consider just a small reef tank with what you have, OR determine the size you can afford then choose the marine lifeforms that are suitable for that environment.

Good luck!

Posted via Mobile Device

[phiphilevup]

ok,
sorry, didnt know how to use the site properly...

ok, so, my clown fish just died this morning. and my other clown looks depressed. i think ill do what you would recommend.

thanks soo much
phi

[phiphilevup]

WELCOME TO REEFLAND!


1. The tank was not allowed to mature. You need to read (and follow) this recommendation: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium Even if you are not starting a FOWLR aquarium, this procedure is solid.

but the water has already cycled. i got it from the aquariam where i bought it form, then i left it for two weeks before adding anything into it.

thanks,
phi

[leebca]

Old water isn't of any value, really. You need to understand the nitrogen cycle. Buying live sand for instance, is a waste of money (not that you did). Understanding the bacteria and how to make the micro life stable is one of the goals at the outset. Days or weeks doesn't do that -- it takes months. Nothing can rush Nature.

Read that post on the mature aquarium. ;)

[phiphilevup]

Old water isn't of any value, really. You need to understand the nitrogen cycle. Buying live sand for instance, is a waste of money (not that you did). Understanding the bacteria and how to make the micro life stable is one of the goals at the outset. Days or weeks doesn't do that -- it takes months. Nothing can rush Nature.

Read that post on the mature aquarium. ;)

sorry, what i meant was that everything i got was from the same tank. it was from the actual setup of the aquarium from the shop. the water, the sand and the rock was from the tank and fish had already been swimming around in it before i got it. so everything had already been cycle.

is there something im missing?

thanks, i really do appreciate your help.
phi

[Nemo Keeper]

What Lee is trying to tell you is that even if you use "old" water from another tank, you still need go through the cycling process. Example: I moved my 75 gal tank about 3 months ago. Even though it's the same water, rocks, sand, etc. I still needed to cycle the tank. You really need to read that link Lee sent you. It explains it in detail.

[leebca]

What might be missing is how much we depend upon bacteria AND what affects their function.

The bacteria the marine system depends upon are everywhere (like the USA Marines -- land, sea, and air). They are, however sensitive to changes in their environment. When there's a disruption, they sometimes stop their 'eating' (metabolism). They wait for things to get better.

Like Nemo Keeper has mentioned, a move with everything in tact is enough to cause the bacteria to stop their metabolism and require settling in again. BUT the problem is that you're thinking right now of the bacteria that handle ammonia and nitrites. Those aren't the only microbes we depend upon in the marine system.

Behind the scenes are the microbes that process other organic wastes, elements and catalysts being a part of their processing (metabolism). They must settle in to complete the whole marine system picture. From microbe to micro fauna and flora, they are 'shocked' by the change (like a move). They may take days, weeks or even months to recover, depending upon their makeup and the kinds in the system.

Although hobbyists measure points along the nitrogen cycle (ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates) there are dozens of other metabolic processes going on we don't measure. I call these being a part of the 'secret cycle.' This post goes along nicely with the Water Quality post: The Secret Cycle

More to read, I'm afraid.

[phiphilevup]

ok. now i get it. yeah, i guess i was only thinking about the ammonia and nitrite changing bacterials.
thanks really for the help. i now know what went wrong

cheers,
phi