Why are my Fish Dying?

[damonj2]

Hi, I'm new to the marine aquarium hobby, and so I made the mistake of putting 3 fish (two clowns and a blue tang) into my newly cycled tank along with my cleaner crew without quarantining the fish first (assuming that since all the fish were new, it wasn't needed). A couple weeks later I started to notice small white spots on the clowns (about the size of a BB) and the tang was scratching itself on the decorations. After researching a little I bought and set up a quarantine tank (with a filter, heater, and an air stone). I tried hyposalinity to treat the fish (Specific gravity of 1.010) and leaving the display tank without fish for a month to make sure no parasites survived. The fish seemed to take it just fine for the first little bit (about a week), but then one day, one of the clowns started swimming like it was drunk. I also noticed the white spots were a lot bigger and covered a quarter of it's body. I tested the water parameters and realized the Nitrites were in the stressful range (everything else was acceptable, including the ammonia). To try and save the fish I did a 50% water change, then added a medicine called quick cure (formalin and something blue, I think). Within an hour it died. The next day the second clown started swimming like it was drunk. I did another 50% water change and gave another dose of medicine. The fish worsened very quickly. I decided that maybe it was the medication that was killing the fish, so I did another 50% water change to get the medicine out. The fish died that night.
As I am really trying to learn, what did I do wrong? How might I have saved the fish?
The tang is still in the quarantine tank. I'm doing daily 50%water changes to keep the water quality pristine. I mix the water the night before (something I didn't do before, due to the emergency nature of the water changes). The two week mark for doing the hyposalinity is tommorow, and I plan on rising the specific gravity by .002/day until I reach normal levels. Is there anything I should be doing differently with the tang, so I don't loose it too?
Thank you so much for your answers.

[leebca]

WELCOME TO REEFLAND!

Sorry the disaster brought you here for your first post. You have been seriously misinformed, and you're about to commit additional errors.

I would stop taking advice from whomever you are getting it from and start gathering facts. Always review the credentials of those you take advice from. If they don't have years in the hobby, educated in some part of the hobby field, had advanced education and training in ornamental fish husbandry, and at least decades of experience, keep looking for another person to get help from.

Start by reading, in case you haven't read these already:
Marine Ich - Myths and Facts
Hyposalinity Treatment
and
A Quarantine Process (step-by-step) to begin with. I hope you can learn and retain information from reading.

Original errors include:
1. Adding too many fish at one time
2. Adding fish too early -- before tank had matured (sorry, more to read: The Mature Aquarium)
3. Not using a quarantine process.

You see it isn't just skipping the quarantine process. It's how the whole system started out. I know you have it going, but it is worth reading what you should have done: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium.

My worry now is that you haven't said what size your tank is, and now I'm thinking you may be trying to overstock the system you have.

Things that were 'off' later on include:
1. Not setting up a proper quarantine tank (read above);
2. Not constantly monitoring water quality in the QT;
3. Putting the sp. gr. down to 1.008 using a refractometer (I hope you used this to control the sp. gr. -- if not. . .another error)
4. Trying to treat fish in hyposalinity with chemicals -- chemicals in hyposalinity take on a different quality -- some meds become poisons -- the medicine was stressing the sick fish at this stage;
5. Perhaps not making a proper, large water change. That's right. . .More to read: How to Make a Successful Water Change

Rather than elaborate on each point (which would be a very long post), everything you need to understand is in those references and you'll see where you have deviated or from lack of knowledge, not done what was required.

Fish are left in hypo 4 weeks or more AFTER you see the last spot. It isn't 2 weeks at all. Then, after the sp. gr. is slowly raised, the fish are still kept there another 4 more weeks to verify they are cured. The tank must go fishless for no less than 8 weeks.

Do this differently for the Tang: READ. Do not raise salinity now. Follow the guidance in the reference given above for hypo treatment. Do water quality test two or three times a day. Change water with the above written controls (see reference link). Maintain stable and top quality water. Check your water source for contaminants and purity.

Make sure you have the right tools: refractometer for salt water; test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and pH. Then use them very often. It's better to have a pH meter, like those used in field work. They aren't too expensive but very worthwhile.

Again, I mention it isn't your fault. You've gotten bad advice and guidance. For now -- Back off, start from nearly scratch and proceed slowly.

Good luck!

[damonj2]

Thank you so much for your thourogh answer. I have read a lot of different articles, forums, etc. I thought I was following fairly sound advice, aparantly I wasn't reading the right stuff... there are a lot of myth's out there.
As for the tank parameters, I have a 55 gallon display tank with 40 lb live sand, 2 power heads, hang on filter, and heater. I did at least make sure that my nitrites and amonia were down to 0 before I added the cleaner crew and the 3 fish (I made the mistake of ordering all of that at once to save on shipping from petco.com). It is currently stocked with the petco cleaner crew for a 55 gallon tank which includes 20 Cerith Snails, 10 Nerite Snails, 10 Margarita Snails, 2 Sand Sifting Starfish, 10 Red Leg Hermit Crabs, 10 Blue Leg Hermit Crabs, 2 Medium Cleaner Shrimp and 2 Arrow Crabs. I currently only have one fish (the tang, about 2 inches long) and it is in the quarantine tank (10 gallon tank with filter, hiding places, and air stone).
The current test strips that I have, don't give very accurate readings on pH (I can't hardly tell the difference in colors), I'll need to get some more, or maybe one of the field ones.
Also, since I noticed nitrite in my QT tank, I have been doing daily water 50% changes to get rid of it (and I'm always sure to vacume the food out when I do), but with no luck, I still have about the same level of nitrites. Is there something that I can do besides the water changes to lower the nitrite level?

Thanks again for the answer, I skimmed the articles, and I'll go back and read them in depth over the next day or two!

[leebca]

You are of course correct about a lot of 'myth-information' out there. There are no regulations, standards, or even 'approved' guidelines for 'best practices' in this hobby.

Read the post on setting up the QT and make sure you have a sponge filter. They will seed about as fast as anything and will begin to handle the ammonia and nitrites. It will take time. There are no shortcuts.

Products like Algone can help reduce your nitrite problems by removing some ammonia before it gets to nitrites. But you'll need the sponge filter working to maintain stability of water quality.

Even so, the QT system will require water changes. A Tang produces a lot of waste if it is being fed properly. Since I imagine that is an area you haven't gotten good advice on, there is more reading for you on that: Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition and
How To Feed Macro Alage to Marine Fishes

Sorry for pushing all this reading to you, but the truth and best practices are in those posts.

You want to stop using test strips. Really not good. You'll have to get into using test kits that titrate chemicals or like for pH, a pH meter. Sorry to say, there are no shortcuts in this hobby.

Regarding your nitrite problem. First be sure you are measuring it with a test kit (not strips). Make sure you are getting a real, and an accurate reading.

Next, keep up the waste removal in the QT. That is good. Also, as mentioned above, get that sponge filter going. You might want to try some small packets of Algone. Just tie it (clean rubberband) to an artificial rock or glass whatever and sink it into the tank.

Since the number doesn't seem to go down, look for another source of ammonia and/or nitrites. Check your source water for this. More to read on choice of source water: WATER - Source and NSW

It could be that you are putting ammonia and/or nitrites in the water unintentionally. Rinse off all food and keep 'juices' from foods out of the water; check the source water for contamination and purity; follow the above suggestions.



Lastly, your water changes should be no less than about 75% following the written guidelines for a water change.

[Nemo Keeper]

Hey Damon, first off I'm sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time on your first tank. I promise that once you get everything staightened out you will really enjoy this hobby. Second, I wanted to mention a personal experience of mine. I really don't like to bad mouth anyone but I really can't help myself with this one/ PERSONALLY, I stay away from Petco when it comes to saltwater fish. I have visited many of theit stores because I also have an American Bulldog, and I am yet to visit a store that has saltwayer fish that doesn NOT have ICH on them. Every store that I have visited, I have looked at their fish and noticed they ALWAYS have ICH all over them. Also, they are much more expensive than my LFS. Example: They were selling a beautiful leather coral for $45.00 (about 3 inches in diameter) when my LFS have the EXADCT same one, maybe a little bigger for $30.00.
Be careful with Petco, they are not experts when it comes to saltwater fish and DEFINITELY take Lee's advice. I went through all those readings and it's well worth trhe time.

Good luck