strange spots on my blonde naso

[cmetzge3]

Hi everyone i'm very new to the forum so please bear with me.

I have a fat, active, three inch Blonde Naso Tang. yesterday i noticed that he has strange spots on the left side of his face. they are kinda redish in color and rather small. didn't think much of it then this afternoon i looked again and two more have appeared on his left side below his fin. he is eating very well and i havent noticed any twitching or rock rubbing but i had an outbreak of velvet that claimed the entire tank about 2 months ago (have had my current stock about 3 weeks) and i realy don't want to repeat the experience so please if anyone has any ideas please help.

[leebca]

WELCOME TO REEFLAND!

Sorry this was the reason for your first post here.

I would need a photo to be sure, but this sounds more like a water quality problem. Water quality is more than just what you might measure. You should read this: What is Water Quality

For now, I would be sure that your source water is really pure (use RO/DI or distilled water if in doubt) by testing it. Then perform a very large (over 80%) water change. Since this is a large water change, you should follow these guidelines: How to Make a Successful Water Change. If the fish shows signs of improvement, then perform another large water change the next day after signs of improvement. But then you need to take action to improve the overall water quality.

Timing seems to be a bit off. Tank wipeout 2 months ago and new fish in the aquarium for 3 weeks? Then you added your first fishes within a month of the wipe out? This is a very good cause for a decrease in water quality.

IF you would like further help on this, then provide some photos along with the following information:

What is the size (dimensions and gallonage) of your aquarium? Does the gallonage include the volume from the sump and any refugium?
Do you use carbon, skimmer, mechanical or other chemical filtration? List all along with their maintenance.
Do you have live rock in the system? How many pounds or amount and where is it put?
Other than live rock hitchhikers, list all marine life & sizes in the tank (fish, inverts, corals, clams, snails, crabs, shrimp, etc.).
Do you use a quarantine tank and procedure?
Foods you use and feeding schedules.
How long have you had this fish? If the fish was recently acquired (6 weeks or less), two more questions: Did you treat it or give it a dip before it went into the aquarium? How did you acclimate it – what procedure?
Do you use any vitamins? Fat additives? Any elemental or other additives? Please list all.
Chemistries – Do you test for Phosphate, alkalinity, calcium and magnesium? Please give actual current numbers for everything. I would like test kit test results, not dip stick results and actual numbers even if you think all is fine/okay. Have these numbers been changing lately?
Water parameters – please give actual numbers (pH and your pH range, salinity or sp. gr. & range, temperature range)
Do you see any of the following in your system: hair algae; micro algae; cyanobacteria growths (red slime algae); dinoflagellate (zooxanthellae) growths; brown algae; diatom growth; slimes; off-colored patches on rock or substrate that are not coralline; etc.?
Water changes (how much and how often).
What is your source water? (Tap water, RO water, DI water, RO/DI, distilled, etc.)
List what you added or taken out of your aquarium system (living, decorations, and equipment) during the past 6 weeks.
Maintenance schedule. What have you done lately?

[cmetzge3]

thanks for replying. This is my first tank but i have had alot of help from a friend who has more than 10 years experience, unfortunately he has only had disease problems once in that time so his diagnosis and cure knowledge is limited. My tank was a fish only tank with a flame angel and two ocilaris clowns at first. the clowns came down with ich first then the angel got it. since it was a fish only tank (and rather small 29gal) we decided to treat them in the main display tank. i successfully treated with copper and they thrived for about 2 weeks and as i started to lower the copper level the Amonia skyrocketed. I was told at my LFS that this happened because my tank was soo new (only 2 months since set up.) all three showed severe amonia burn within 2 days and i couldn't seem to get the amonia down no matter what i did. Saddly the angel lost his life to the amonia and when i finaly did get it down to zero the clowns had come down with velvet and died a week later. after this happened the tank sat empty for a week before the amonia shot up to an insane level again!(more than 4.0) my lfs advised me to simply start over. so thats what i did. the old system was drained, new sand, etc. thats why the timming is off. its technically a different system. as to the other questions...

1.it is a 29 gal (to be upgraded to a 100 gal within a few months), no sump yet but comming soon.

2. I use a hang on the back box filter with carbon and a phosphate remover as well as a small amount of chaeto in the box as well. there is about 20-25lbs of live rock stacked along the back wall of the tank.

3. the current population is... 1 Maroon clown 1.5" paired with a Sebae anemone 4+" in diameter, green carpen anemone 8", Juvi Koran Angel 2.5", Blonde Naso Tang 3", Basket starfish, blue coral banded shrimp, assorted turbo snails and hermit crabs, 3 emerald crabs, assorted soft corals... (this being said i do understand that this tank is crowded and that two of the fish will grow quite large and an upgrade is planned.)

4.i am setting up a 10gal qt tonight

5. I have had these fish about three weeks. they were drip acclimated. they were not quarentined... yes i realize this was a mistake. green algea is kept in the tank and they are fed frozen spirulina and/or frozen brine twice a day... the anemones are fed twice a week (they are all voratious eaters). no vitamins used... reef solution used every couple days and a water conditioner used durring water changes... i change 3-4 gal every saturday... religiously. i also put just a little bit of phytoplex in twice a week for the corals and the starfish.

6. Um as far as chemistry goes... i only check amonia, nitrates and ph.
amonia and nitrate is 0 and PH has been steady at about 8. the only algea that i have noticed are purpleish siverish patches that grow on the live sand. rocks are clean

7. in the last six weeks 4 fish were added along with 1 piece of neon coral. I only have three fish right now because my red mandarin fell prey to the carpet anemone on tuesday. I did everything i could to save him... pulled him off the anemone and put him in the opposite corner of the tank. he was alive when i went to bed but he didn't survive the night.

My fish arent shy but they seem to know when you have a camera so i realy couldn't get a good enough picture that you can see the spots but here is a link to a video of them on youtube.
YouTube - 30 gal reef tank

the spots are a light redish color.. they seem to have fadded a little today... he eats well no flashing or rubbing... the video is from a few weeks ago... sece then he has become quite the fatty... not sure if that matters though.

thanks again

[sober_pollock]

Are you saying that you used copper to treat the fish with Ich in the 29 gallon tank?

And you now have snails, crabs, and shrimp in that tank?

If so, that's not going to end well for the snails, crabs, and shrimp.....

pollock

[leebca]

Just some observations and opinions and more questions:

a. When you treated the fish in the tank, what else was in the tank? substrate? rock?

b. Ammonia spike indicates die off. If the answer to a. is that there was live rock and/or substrate during the copper treatment, then the rock hitchhikers are the ones dieing.

c. So now you have a 'new system' which needed a break in period. This is how it should have begun: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium You might compare what is happening to what should be happening and steer towards a slow approach as given in that guideline.

1. The tank size has limited possibilities for marine fishes. Most fishes are too large for that size tank.

2. Does the hang-on filter have filter floss in it to catch solids? or how are solids removed? (this is the mechanical filter). Also, is this the same live rock from the previous tank? Was it treated with copper?

3. Yes. Overcrowded. Two fish in there need a 125 gallon tank, and then in a couple of years, a 300 gallon tank. You've got a couple of fish that belong in large display tanks.

4. Good. If that particular population of fishes need treatment, they will need to be treated in a quarantine tank of 29 gallons. Your 29 would be the quarantine tank for the display of 125.

5. Food and feeding frequency is wrong. Please read up: Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition Brine shrimp has almost no nutritional value for sustaining marine fishes. Fix this as soon as you can.

6. The 'purplish' life you describe indicates poor water quality and circulation. Got to address both. Let's start by getting test kits and testing the water for:
ammonia
nitrite
nitrate
pH (or use a pH meter)
alkalinity
magnesium
calcium
Measure specific gravity either by a refractometer or quality hydrometer.

7. 6 weeks - 4 fish. The rate of adding fish should be about 1 fish every 6 weeks, or in the case of the fish there now, which are too big for that aquarium, one fish every two months. The biological system is being over dosed and it can't handle the biological load put on it that fast. Nature moves slowly and hobbyists have to take up that pace to be successful.

Did you perform the large water change? Please do that and then do that every other day until you've made 3 large water changes.

[cmetzge3]

Well luckily today i woke up and all traces of spots on the tang are gone.

a. yes there was live sand and rock in the tank when i treated with copper... the sand and rock i have now is new and has not been treated.

b. yes the filter box does catch solids... anything it doesn't catch i leave up to the cleaning crew.. crabs and such.

c. i am planning an upgrade to a 150 gal but it won't me for a month or so.. do you think i should move mr. clown and his anemone to my 10 gal to ease the bio load till then or won't that make much of a difference?

d. the nutrition link was very helpfull thank you... i have been fighting with the flow in this tank since start up i just can't seem to get it right! specific gravity is 1.022 (sry didn't think that counted as chemistry) will get a test kit tomorrow for everything else.

e. yes the water change has been done


um pollock... the tank is completely clean of copper... crabs and snails and shrimpies are safe

[leebca]

You might obtain the 150 soon, but it will take months before it is ready for the fish and more sensitive marine life forms.

I wouldn't relocate the fishes and marine life now. However if I were you, I would no longer do small water changes. Do only very large water changes about once every week, until the new home is running and aged properly.

[cmetzge3]

thanks again!!!!!

[cmetzge3]

hi lee,
tragedy struck last night. i walked in and noticed my carpet anemone all scrunched up and my tang going crazy. i realized that i didnt see my angel and quickly pulled appart the anemone and released him. he swam away and i immediately moved him to the qt. and he was swimming around ok but he died durring the night.... could you tell me if there was anything else i could have done or is a fish doomed once the anemone gets ahold of it?

[leebca]

Nothing that I know of can help a stung fish. Sorry for the loss.