Teatment for tank

[bgs522]

Okay so, I posted elsewhere and am trying to treat Ich. Right now I have a display tank that is a 75 gallon that I have lost 6 fish in and have 5 fish left. I fish shows signs of ich and I am sure the other fish have it. I took out all of my live rock and inverts to use quick cure in the tank and have the live rock and inverts in a 10 gal which will be my QT. I read all the treatments on this site but they all refer doing them in a QT. Well I can't put all the fish in a 10 gal QT. What is the best treatment for my 75 gal so I can treat the entire tank and the fish.

I recently used quick cure because it contains formulin and that is suppose to kill ich and almost every parasite that might be ich or not.


Remaining in the display tank:

Porcupine puffer
Green spotted puffer
lawnmower blenny
diamond goby
blue/black wrasse

20lbs of live rock and about 2-3 inch substrate( crushed coral and live sand)

I just want the fastest treatment for my setup whether 2 months or 12 months.

Thoughts??????????????????????????????????

[leebca]

Does the tank still contain any substrate? Calcium/carbonate type substrates can and do interfere with medications. Hence the requirement to move fish to a bare tank.

Second, if the substrate is there and there has/had been live rock there, then the substrate should be loaded with worms and other benthic creatures that hitchhiked with the live rock. Medications will kill these invertebrates, which will lead to spikes of ammonia and nitrites which often is the cause of a system-wide crash.

Formalin doesn't kill Marine Ich in concentrations used to make sure fish don't suffer. Hence it was abandoned long ago in favor of the only three means of truly treating fish of Marine Ich.

I can only refer you to this post: Curing Fish of Marine Ich

Both treatment methods are fatal to many invertebrate lifeforms. I don't think treatment methods or medications can improve upon what has been studied for more than several decades and worked for the last 40 years. Alternative treatments are not as thorough or as reliable, or the medications that will also work are not available to the public. Thus the three methods are what hobbyists are left using.

Other 'success testimonials' are anecdotal at best. And when you hear one, consider what a boon it would be to the fish farming industry that looses millions of dollars each year to this parasite, to have a medication that always cures marine fishes of this parasite. Another method would hit the front pages of aquaculture journals around the world.

I concur that a 10g tank is not a suitable tank for the quarantine of those fishes. So. . .get more tanks; get bigger tanks; etc. but I can only recommend doing it right.

[bgs522]

Thanks Lee,

I do still have substrate on the bottom of the tank. The tank also still contains base rock but I removed all the live rock and inverts. I understand that having multiple QT's would be best but until I sell my house, I am limited on funds. But I can turn my 75 gal into a hospital tank. So from this stand point what would be the best treatment? Hypo-salinity? I have stopped using Quick Cure because it seems that works best with water baths.

[leebca]

With rock and substrate still in the tank, hyposalinity is the preferred treatment method. The base rock will not be affected by a hyposalinity treatment. Prior to this treatment, I would put on the system a large chemical filter (one that is rated to remove ammonia and/or nitrites -- preferable the 'and').

The substrate, if it contains marine life forms (which it should vis a vis by having live rock in there) would start a die-off of benthic creatures during this hypo treatment. You're in for a potential crash if you run a hyposalinity treatment. But if you have a chemical treatment running and with careful monitoring you should be okay. You must take test kit readings for ammonia and nitrite three times a day and at the first sign of either or both, perform a large water change.

The hyposaline water will work its way into the rock crevices and into the substrate given a few days' time. Just follow the procedures recommended for this treatment: Hyposalinity Treatment

Still, read through the general post on the curing of fish for Marine Ich: Curing Fish of Marine Ich so you have a good overview (though I think I saw where this was recommended to you before, so you may have read through it already).

Have plenty of water available and in the making; have the chemical filter up and running; and have plenty more chemical on hand to put in and replace spent chemical filter materials.

You can probably do this. But, don't attempt this without having a refractometer on hand; plenty of water; using a proper water change procedure (see: How to Make a Successful Water Change) and plenty of test kits that haven't expired.

[sober_pollock]

Lee is one of the people I most respect in these matters (Probably the one I respect THE most. I've never seen him tell anyone anything that wasn't right on the money).

And Lee is right here too.....I whole heartedly agree with him.....

But.....I'd like to present a different point of view that he might not agree with.

I don't think there is any way to be successful here without getting the fish out of that tank.

Remember these fish are already stressed and sick, it won't take much of a cycle or tank crash to bring about their death.

If you use hypo salinity in that tank, it will cause die off in the substrate. I would bet money that die off will lead to a cycle that in turn leads to a tank crash.

This will bring you right back to square one forcing you to either get the fish out of that tank or watch them die.

If you use copper in that tank, it will cause die off of invertebrates and you may never be able to keep invertebrates in the tank again. It will also cause die of in the live rock and substrate. Again I would bet money that die off will lead to a cycle that in turn leads to a tank crash.

This will also bring you back to square one forcing you to either get the fish out of that tank or watch them die.

Since these fish are already stressed and sick, it won't have to be a really bad cycle or crash to do them in.

What I'm saying here is that any of these scenarios is probably going to force you right back to finding a way to get the fish out of that tank.

Try to find a way to do that. Borrow tanks, rent tanks, steal tanks, do what ever you have to!

You might even look into the kind of Rubbermaid stock watering tanks that some people with large tanks use as sumps.


pollock

[leebca]

Thanks pollock. I have the same perspective. But what to do when I'm told there is no other option? I've always supported the 'Do it right' approach. This is about the best alternative I can think of.

I have seen this done before with various levels of success and failure. Much has to do with just how much/many/kinds of benthic creatures are there AND how well the hobbyist has indeed removed snails and other creatures that can/could/should have been removed.

One thing I should add (to the last post I contributed above) is that the hyposalinity treatment will sometimes (often in fact) cause the biological filter to slow or stop functioning. The bacteria responsible for nitrification go into a kind metabolic stasis until they adjust to the new salinity. They don't die off, per se but they too have to make an adjustment. So even before substrate creatures begin to die, the bacteria may stop working or slow down.

Thus monitoring the ammonia and nitrite levels has to begin at the outset of lowering the salinity.

[sober_pollock]

I also tend to take into consideration the experience level of the person doing it.

There are plenty of things that a well seasoned, experienced aquarist can accomplish, but a less experienced aquarist would struggle with.

Having said this, I'm only guessing about how experienced bgs522 is.

Sorry if I've guessed wrong bgs.....


pollock

[bgs522]

I have only been in the hobby for only about a year and a half and so far have only listened to the answers of the three LFS's I go to. So for as far as my experience goes...I really don't have any. I kept two 30 gallon tanks both FOWLERs until I got my 75. Then I slowly merged both into the 75 gallon. All was well for about 6 months and then I added the butterflies.