fish disease!!

[danielcassar]

hi fish keepers,
i've read the posts that lee wrote regards marine ich and marine velvet and they are really informative.im new in this hobby so all these problems and information are new too me.im facing a problem at the moment in my 60g tank...as i said in my previous posts...my tank is all stocked with local marine life (mediterranean)...i think my problem is that i have marine velvet since ive lost already 4 from my 9 fishes...but i want to confirm if its this disease or maybe another one..since from ive read in lee's posts..my fish has it..
..apart from white small spots on there skin...my fish had as well...

• swollen eyes
• eyes are not clear
• there skin colour had changed (for eg..from dark brown to very light brown),
• when they swim sometimes they scratch there body with a rock,
• and unfortunately before they die they will be up side down on the substrate.

can some one tells me what disease i have in my tank! Thanks!

sorry if im asking a stupid question but as i told you im new in this field.
thanks
daniel

[leebca]

Daniel,

Diagnosis is the most important part of the process. So I'm glad that you are being careful with that.

Marine Ich has white spots the size of a grain of salt or grain of sugar, whereas the white spots of Marine Velvet are like powdered sugar -- much smaller and each spot is not individually seen.

With MV the spots get so close together that the surface of the fish has a sheen to it, hence the 'velvet' in the common name was assigned to it. MV spreads fast and kills very quickly. Usually by the time the hobbyists thinks it might be MV, most fish are dead. Also, since it takes so many of the spots to give the fish that sheen appearance, the fish is usually dead by then.

There is a good way to tell the difference between these two parasites. If you give your fish a freshwater dip for 5 minutes and then remove the fish, you can see tiny specs at the bottom of the fresh water bath if you give them time to settle.

First do this, follow this procedure to give your fish a freshwater dip: Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes The thing to do from this procedure is to change the time of the dip/bath. Only 5 minutes, instead of what is recommended in that post. Make up the bath like directed. If you don't have Methylene Blue available to you, go ahead and perform the bath without it. However, do follow the directions on making up the bath, nonetheless. Okay?

Before you actually perform the dip, look at the bottom of the bath and see if you see anything -- remember then that whatever you see before the dip was done, was there at the start and not from the fish. Dip the fish and look at the bottom of the dip water and see if you see any tiny specks there. That is Marine Velvet. If you see nothing, it isn't Marine Velvet.

No apparent specks doesn't mean it is Marine Ich, but it could be.

The symptoms you listed could literally be either one or any of another few dozen conditions.

Keep us informed!

[danielcassar]

hi lee,

unfortunately i didnt have the chance to try the method u mentioned cause all my fish are dead .....im sad cause they were all healthy and eating everthing...than all of a sudden they had this disease and they are all gone now...looking at the postive side..I didnt lost money (cause i caught them from the sea) but still i was so happy..but anyway!!.

now all i have in my tank are snails, shrimps and a star fish....but still im worried about this disease cause i dont know if its going to affect them as well...still im going to stick with your advice...8 weeks fishless....but can it be another disease!?? i mean if it is not marine velvet or ich...is 8 weeks still safe for any disease!?

im trying to figure what i did wrong to have this disease in my tank...and thinking of it i did something that after things started to change in this disaster...

1. i hatched some brime shrimps in a bottle etc etc....but when i fed my fish i poured the water directly to my tank including hatched brine shrimps and many unhatced eggs as well.....so my water turned with lot of small dots (eggs) circulating in my tank.....and after its like started to stick to my fish....sry ive i am saying stupid things...but im trying to figure out what happened.

i have some photos of one of the dead fish maybe someone can identify the disease....

Thanks
daniel

[leebca]

Sorry to hear of the fish loss. It may not be a money cost, but there is always some emotional cost, too.

I really can't tell too much from the photos. Once a fish dies, diagnosis is very difficult if at all possible. Parasites want to get off of the dead fish as soon as possible, since their food source has stopped. The first photo does seem to indicate the fish has some white spots on it.

Regarding brine shrimp. The problem is you never want the shrimp egg shells to get into the fish. These shells are not too good for marine fishes. They can cause intestinal problems. Remember that a marine fish never saw a brine shrimp in its life. Brine shrimp are not something they normally eat, although newly hatched (baby) brine shrimp are relatively nutritious for marine fishes.

I would do the 8 week fishless wait, but put new fish in only one every 6 weeks AFTER a proper 6-week quarantine period. Go slowly.

Keep feeding the snails, pods, worms, and anything living in the system.

Take this time to find the test kits you need for marine aquarium water. You need to be testing the water now and in the future, routinely for the common things we look to, in order to give an idea of water quality.

;)

[danielcassar]

yeah....i think it started from that brine shrimp fault cause after i did that my fishes started to develop strange symptoms....but with mistakes one can learn...Thanks!!
reagrds possible of an other disease...are snails and shrimps safe!??

regards test kits...i have kits for pH,nitrates, nitrites, ammonia....what else do u recommend!?

thanks
daniel

[leebca]

Snails and shrimp are okay to stay for the 8 week fishless time. All invertebrates are okay. Fortunately they share no diseases with marine fishes that we are concerned about. Keep them fed.

Are you getting water for your water changes from the sea or do you buy salt and make up your own salt water? If you answer this question, I can better guide you on the test kits you will need.

[danielcassar]

ohh ok good yeah im still feeding my remaining life...
yeah i am planning u have nearly all the water changed....and i bring water directly from sea, which in my area its really clean with no nitrates, ammonia or nitrits and ph is 8.2 with saltinity of 1.026.

thanks
daniel

[leebca]

Since you are using natural sea water (NSW) for you water changes, then you want to keep track of the following:

pH
salinity (or specific gravity)
ammonia
nitrite
temperature

Ammonia and nitrites are best tested for by a test kit; the others are best measured by equipment. pH can be measured by test kit or pH meter. The test kits are hard to read and aren't as reliable/accurate as a pH meter. However in your case, with using NSW, a test kit would probably be good enough.

[danielcassar]

ok thanks....so im on the right track cause ive testing those tests from when ive started the setup...next thing i will do when i introduce fish is one by one...but if i have another break of the disease i think i quit from marine setup...cause i dont want to end up again sad...or i will leave it for marine invertebraes and snails. thanks

[leebca]

Daniel,

I really suggest you use the quarantine process to protect the fish in your display system. You can keep disease out of your display tank system, but you need to start using a quarantine process, like the one described in this post linked below. Read through the post and while you are waiting for the 8 weeks to pass, set up and start running the quarantine tank.

A Quarantine Process (step-by-step)

Good luck!

[danielcassar]

yeah...i will follow your advice...thanks lee

[lori]

since your getting water from the ocean,would you top off with ocean water or RO water.im just curiouse if any one knows.and if you do use RO for top off are you using that or tap water?very much agree on one at a time and quarantine tank.if you think about it (big ocean,small tank)very stressful.a lot of places,not all but a lot also de worm and do other treatments on there fish before they sell them.so sorry to hear about your fish also,i feel for you.

[danielcassar]

hi lori.....i do a water change 40% every month...i will go by the sea and fill up 3 cans (around 60 liters each can)....and that would be enough for the top up...cause i have a sump under the main display tank....so i have time until the next top up.....

speaking of the quartanine tank...lee i cant use same water as of the main tank cause if i use same water it will be contaminated with the disease..so i need to wait again for the bacteria to form in the quaratine tank...like a new setup.

thanks daniel

[lori]

hi,correct me if im wrong but are you saying that when you do a water change(cleaning)you do 40% at a time.if so thats to much at one time,you should only have to do a 10% water change every other week.depending if any problems of course.the top off is the water you put in the sump as saltwater evaporates.make sure you use clean plastic jugs that have not been used for anything else,only for the sea water.for the quarenteen tank you get new water, not from main tank and just make sure all readings,temp,everything is the same as main tank,thats all.make sure the quarentine tank is new and clean with nothing in it but a 4" X 4" or so clean pvc pipe piece for your fish to hide if they want.also you want to limit the light in it.less stressful for the recovery.hope this helpsstress causes ick so taking them strait from the sea to your tank is stressful.do the quarantine and you will do fine

[danielcassar]

hi lori,
thanks for replying. regards water change...i just followed lees posts which says "begin water change pattern (10+% weekly, 25% every 2 weeks, or 40+% monthly are good choices)....". i choose to do the 40% monthy because it is more convenient to me to go by the sea only once. N.B i only suck off ONLY water from the main tank.....i dont clean filters or sponges and i dont interfere with the live sand....ONLY WATER.

regards top off....i check my tank salinity every week to check readings...and they are always the same...1.026....cause at the moment my tank and sump are covered with glass lids...so evaporation is limited... in summer it would be another story..so i than need to top up with bottled water.

regards the quarantine i only need a sponge filter and an air stone in it..and some hiding spots such as plastic plants...so no skimmers or power heads i am right!? (as i read lee's post)....regarding light what is the suggested timing!?


thanks daniel

[lori]

1.026 is to high.can someone tell me if thats normal if you get water directly from the sea.should be around 1.022-1.023when you do a water cleaning you should be cleaning the sand also,thats where all the waste goes to.and as far as filters and all,you need to clean them once a month along with your protein skimmer and all.