tang has the ick

[tgurn45]

i have a powder brown tang with the ick.
i noticed a few weeks ago he had a few white spots that i disregarded.
now he has dots all over his body and he is rubbing up against rocks and sand.

what to i to to treat this?? please help.

[Deathsmile]

Im no expert, but im pretty sure you should look into fresh water drips. I know you slowly drip enough fresh water to kill off the ick but keep your tang alive. It takes more then one session and you have to do it to a certain point.

Im sure some of the ELDERS, thats right, i said it again :P will stop by and help.

Curing Fish of Marine Ich

Read that topic, itll be very helpful as are many of the stickies around the forums.

[metalhead]

Search for Ninong's thread on garlic and try that first. It worked very well for me when my powder blue had a bad case of ich and is definitely worth a try IMHO. Good luck!!! Let us know how it works out.

[leebca]

Fresh water and garlic do not cure fish of Marine Ich.

The link provided above is the one to read AND follow. I'll post it here again:
Curing Fish of Marine Ich

There are no shortcuts to curing fish of this parasite. The best thing in the future is to prevent it from getting into your tank and only you can do that, and only through a quarantine process.

Good luck!

[Deathsmile]

The hyposalinity treatment only treats a very limited number of ciliated parasites. The most notable in this group is Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans). The home aquarist will not be using hyposalinity to treat any other disease or condition. Is this clear? I'll write it again -- hyposalinity cures ONLY Marine Ich.

Im just saying Leebca... which one is it....

Hypo- means lacking, so hyposalinity means lack of salt levels.

And it says in the hyposalinity treatment page that this treatment ONLY cures Marine Ich.

not trying to be a pain in the ass, just a little confused.... :\

[leebca]

Not sure what you're confused about? Hyposalinity treats Marine Ich. The other marine ciliated parasites it kills are not found in aquariums due to their complex life stages (requiring rare invertebrates to complete their life cycle, for instance) or fragile nature.

The home aquarist will only use the hyposalinity treatment to cure marine fishes of Marine Ich.

[Deathsmile]

Im confused because youre contridicting yourself....

The guy has a Marine Ich problem with his fish, i suggest a freswater dip, you say it doesnt work, then when i link a topic saying thats all its for and then you say that fresh dips do work....

You posted this:

Fresh water and garlic do not cure fish of Marine Ich.

The link provided above is the one to read AND follow. I'll post it here again:
Curing Fish of Marine Ich

So you said that Fresh water dips do NOT work.

Within that link, is the link to the Hyposalinity, which is a fresh water dip. WIthin that guide it says that they ONLY work on Marine Ich, i know it doesnt on more advanced parasite, but since this is a marine ich problem im kinda confused on why you said a fresh water dip/hyposalinty treatment wont work, but youre saying it will...

Thats why im confussed, because the article said one thing but you said another.

[metalhead]

Fresh water and garlic do not cure fish of Marine Ich.

The link provided above is the one to read AND follow. I'll post it here again:
Curing Fish of Marine Ich

There are no shortcuts to curing fish of this parasite. The best thing in the future is to prevent it from getting into your tank and only you can do that, and only through a quarantine process.

Good luck!

So he has a freshwater brown tang?

[metalhead]

Fresh water and garlic do not cure fish of Marine Ich.

The link provided above is the one to read AND follow. I'll post it here again:
Curing Fish of Marine Ich

There are no shortcuts to curing fish of this parasite. The best thing in the future is to prevent it from getting into your tank and only you can do that, and only through a quarantine process.

Good luck!

I would also have to disagree with you that garlic does not cure marine ich since it did for me... Which is all documented in Ninong's thread.

[sober_pollock]

..... Within that link, is the link to the Hyposalinity, which is a fresh water dip.....

A fresh water dip is NOT the same as the hyposalinity treatment.


pollock

[Deathsmile]

Whats the difference between A slow fresh water dip and HYPOsalinity.... they mean the same exact thing...

The process of adding fresh water diluting salt water is the definition of hyposalinity.

[sober_pollock]

Whats the difference between A slow fresh water dip and HYPOsalinity.....

TIME


pollock

[leebca]

I think I better understand your confusion. You are equating freshwater with hyposalinity. But I am separating a 'dip' from a 'hyposalinity treatment.' The latter is for an extended period of time.

We use the term hyposalinity to mean a lower salinity, not a zero salinity. In this case, hyposalinity is a specific gravity reading of 1.008 sp. gr. units. This still allows the marine fish to live during the treatment. A marine fish can't live in freshwater, however.

The freshwater dip is a temporary exposure of the fish to fresh water. The Marine Ich in the fish are not affected. Some of the parasites that are on the surface or about to encyst can be affected. However, the FW dip is not a cure. The only part of the parasite that is always affected by the lower salinity is when the parasite leaves the fish. That means the fish has to be in a low salt environment for an extended period of time, which a marine fish can't do in freshwater.

I think it might help if you also read this post: Marine Ich - Myths and Facts which elaborates more on the role that freshwater does and doesn't play.

[leebca]

metalhead,

Garlic and any of its extracts does not cure marine fish of Marine Ich. You can disagree if you want, but I have scientific proof. If you'd like to present your proof, I and the doctors at the veterinarian school where I received training on ornamental fish diseases would like to review it.

What is often reported is that 'spots' are no longer seen. This doesn't mean the fish isn't infected. On every fish I have examined that has been supposedly cured of Marine Ich by garlic I have found Marine Ich parasites on and in the fish. Everyone.

When we recommend that ALL fishes be treated for Marine Ich when one or more fishes display the spots, it is because ALL are infected, even if they are not displaying.

In the early 1970's I made scientific tests on the use of garlic. Garlic failed to cure marine fish of Marine Ich.

Think a minute metalhead. . .IF garlic extracts could cure marine fish of Marine Ich, then why are we still loosing millions of dollars a year to this parasite in the marine fish farming market? This discovery would be on the front pages of every major aquaculture periodical. The price of farm-raised marine fish foods would drop since there would be no further losses. Sorry. It just isn't true.

This is how to prove the point, which is a sample of the work I performed:
1. Identify fish that have no infection, disease or problems;
2. Identify a source of Marine Ich and isolate the parasite;
3. Split group 1 into two groups, and infect one of the groups with 2.
4. Treat with garlic extracts (this multi-tested -- specific extracts, fresh extracts, old extracts, multi-extracts).
5. If any fish no longer display the parasite, test each fish for the presence of the parasite, using a microscope and necropsy techniques.

Unfortunately, all fish in 5 show the parasite's presence. The other group from 1. still shows no parasite present. The final proof has to be through microscopic examination and necropsy (not unaided visual examination).

When necropsy data on multiple fishes from different labs show that the group in 5. is void of Marine Ich, then we'll have the scientific proof. Up until then, it is anecdotal and so far, no one has published any success at finding the group 5. void of Marine Ich.

The gap is between what is being displayed and what is microscopically confirmed. Not all Marine Ich is caught by the human eye. Single spots come and go. Parasites reside in the gill, out of sight. Some fish carry it, but remain resistant, giving up their energy to the parasite. Etc.,

[Ninong]

Hypo- means lacking, so hyposalinity means lack of salt levels.

That's the source of your confusion. The prefix hypo- doesn't mean "lacking," it means "under." And hyper- means "over." Both are from the Greek. Think of the word hypodermic, which means "under the skin." Or hypothermic, meaning "under normal body temperature."

Hyposalinity means under natural seawater levels of salinity and hypersalinity means over natural seawater levels of salinity.

[Ninong]

Since my name was mentioned, I would like to point out that in the very first paragraphs of my thread on my experience using freshly minced garlic I said that garlic extract is ineffective. I didn't use garlic extract. I used freshly minced garlic that I minced just prior to each feeding. That's because the active ingredient in garlic, allicin, is only produced when the cell walls are cut and it has a very short viable lifespan. I even explained how allicin is formed. I don't know of any method to preserve allicin in it's original form.

In any case, my experience was just that: my experience. I was careful to make no general claims. It definitely worked for me and it has worked for quite a few other people who have tried it. I certainly don't claim that it will work for everyone and I doubt that most people who try using garlic will follow the exact procedures that I used. My first attempt, as related in my thread, failed because I discontinued it after only three weeks. My second attempt, lasting more than five weeks, succeeded. There were no visible signs of Cryptocaryon irritans on any fish in my aquarium after that. Ever.

Horge is the guy who first wrote about this quite a few years ago. That's where I got the idea to try it. He made no claims and neither did I.

I realize that this method will not always be successful and I seriously doubt that it would be successful if the fish are in advanced stages of infestation. I began using this method within 24 hours of seeing the very first white spots on any of my fish.

You would have to read my thread to see what I did and how I did it and what my observations were. It worked in my case. Your mileage may, and probably will, vary.

I am still convinced that hyposalinity is the best treatment. And that quarantining is the best way to avoid this problem in the first place. I certainly endorse all of Lee's recommendations.

[Deathsmile]

Ok, i understand better now. Because when i say a "freshwater dip" i mean slowly dripping freshwater into the salt water until you get to a low enough salt water level to kill the parasite and not the fish. I never meant like, just put the fish in pure freshwater, in my mind i was saying to slowly add freshwater which would lower the salinity slowly until you get to the low level you needed. and then keep it at that level as long as needed, guess it kinda got mixed up from going to me to what i typed?

[sober_pollock]

Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes


pollock

[metalhead]

Lee/Ninong, no scientific studies here on my end and Ninong you pretty much emphasized any and every point I would have made in your previous post. All I'm saying is that Ninong's treatment method worked for me and cured a tang that definitely had a bad case of ich. Therefore my main point being that this method is worth a try IMO before ripping apart a reef tank to isolate the infected fish.

[sober_pollock]

Lee/Ninong, no scientific studies here on my end and Ninong you pretty much emphasized any and every point I would have made in your previous post. All I'm saying is that Ninong's treatment method worked for me and cured a tang that definitely had a bad case of ich. Therefore my main point being that this method is worth a try IMO before ripping apart a reef tank to isolate the infected fish.

Question.....Is the Tang "cured"?....Or is it just no longer showing symptoms?.....

Not being argumentative, it's a real question.....

I've read many people post (On other forums) that they had fish that "Got Ich" after some sort of stress event, and I always suspect that the fish had it all along, it's just that the aquarist didn't know it because they didn't see "white spots".

It always makes me wonder when I read someone say that they cured a fish by changing the temerature (Or some other method besides copper or hyposalinity). Is the fish going to have another outbreak in six months or a year after some stress causing event?

And is that outbreak is attributed to the stress rather than to the fact the fish was never really cured in the first place?


pollock