Could use some opinions PLEASE

[rbu1]

OK I will try to keep this short and sweet...

I have a Blue Angel Hybrid in QT since Jan 2. I put the fish in the QT along with a multicolored pygmy angel and coris wrasse. I waited about a week after putting the fish in QT to make sure they were all eating and doing well before I started the copper. I treated with Cupramine at .5 for 3 weeks. I was aiming for 4 weeks or cupramine but the blue angel got some really cloudy eyes and had white patches on his pectoral fins and stopped eating. The mulitcolored pygmy and coris wrasse were eating and acting fine. After speaking to some people I trust, the thought was flukes. So I did a couple 50 gallon water changes (this is a 125 gallon QT) and ran carbon for a couple days then started prazipro..At this time, about 2 days into the prazi treatment, I figured it would be best to get the multi colored pygmy and corris out of QT and in to the main tank. They have been in the main tank for about 2 weeks and are eating and looking great. A few days after the prazi was dosed the eyes on the blue angel started to clear and the fish began eating again. One eye still had a little cloudiness and the pectoral fins still had a few white areas. So I did a couple more 50 gallon water changes and ran some carbon for about a week. One eye had a small patch of cloudiness and he pectoral fins still have a few white spots on them but the fish is acting and eating again like normal. So this past Friday I dosed another round of Prazipro. As of today the eye still has a small cloudiness and the pectoral fins have a few white spots/patches on them that you can only see when the fins are away from the body and light is shinning thru them. My fear is that the white on the pectoral fins is ich....I really hope it is not because I took the pygmy and corris out of the QT and into the display I am trying to keep disease free. Any thoughts on what these white spots/blotches on the pectoral fins could be? I tried to take a picture but can't get anything to show up because the fish really needs to be at the right angle with light shinning thru the fins.... I really hope that I did not put ich into my main display, especially after going thru this PITA process of QTing....

I need some thoughts/opinions PLEASE...

[ToddTT]

A 125 gallon QT? How big is your main tank?

Have you read the sticky here for ich? It has a lot of good info.

Do you have other fish in your main tank? Or just the two you added? Adding ich is not too bad if you only have a couple of fish in there. You would need to remove them from the display for about 6 weeks.

It seems unlikely that you would be dealing with ich if you had treated with Cupramine in the QT.

How are you doing those water changes? Are you giving the salt mixture time to properly dissolve (hopefully 24 hours or more)?

Keep trying to take pics, and soon that crazy dude LEE will have some good advice for you. ;)

Good luck.

[ToddTT]

Maybe of use:

Marine Fish Diseases and Parasites


Not sure if we have something similar in the stickies here.

[rbu1]

The display is a 300. I would agree that adding those couple of fish is no big deal....However catching them along with 2 clowns in with 500 pounds of rock is no easy task...I have done it twice already by tearing the tank down and will not be doing it again. If this is ich on his pectoral fins I will keep my fingers crossed that I was lucky enough not to introduce it to the display via the other 2 fish. I really don't understand how ich could have made it thru 3 weeks of .5 cupramine. I am hoping it could be eggs from the flukes that are dead but not falling off the pectoral fins. I would think that I would see spots on the body by now if it was ich. The entire time this guy and the others were in QT I never saw a single spec of ich and like I said that was since Jan 2. I only did the Cupramine to add that extra layer of protection from adding ich back to the display.

I mix my salt for 24/48 hours at least...

A 125 gallon QT? How big is your main tank?

Have you read the sticky here for ich? It has a lot of good info.

Do you have other fish in your main tank? Or just the two you added? Adding ich is not too bad if you only have a couple of fish in there. You would need to remove them from the display for about 6 weeks.

It seems unlikely that you would be dealing with ich if you had treated with Cupramine in the QT.

How are you doing those water changes? Are you giving the salt mixture time to properly dissolve (hopefully 24 hours or more)?

Keep trying to take pics, and soon that crazy dude LEE will have some good advice for you. ;)

Good luck.

[ToddTT]

This thread may also be of some use.

Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes

However, I'm not saying it is a good idea right now. I'm not sure how stressful it is for a fish to go from treatment to treatment in a short period of time. Others will know better.

You sound like you're pretty serious about the hobby, so I assume you're feeding a variety of foods, and making sure to meet the angel's specific needs?

And have you heard of the soda bottle trick for catching fish? I'm sure it doesn't always work, and requires a little patience, but maybe for your tank it will be handy in the future.

[rbu1]

This thread may also be of some use.

Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes

However, I'm not saying it is a good idea right now. I'm not sure how stressful it is for a fish to go from treatment to treatment in a short period of time. Others will know better.

You sound like you're pretty serious about the hobby, so I assume you're feeding a variety of foods, and making sure to meet the angel's specific needs?

And have you heard of the soda bottle trick for catching fish? I'm sure it doesn't always work, and requires a little patience, but maybe for your tank it will be handy in the future.

I guess you can say I am serious about the hobby....Been doing it for about 6 years. I only recently began to belileve in the QT process because I had to tear down the 300 twice now to ich outbreaks. I will be really pissed if this turns out to be ich knowing that I removed the pygmy angel and the corris wrasse from the QT. I just hope I did not introduce ich back to that tank. I guess time will tell.....But I am not tearing it down again. I will just have to live with it. But to get back on the focus of this thread.... What can be on the pectoral fins of this fish? Are fluke eggs a possibility?

[leebca]

I will need to see clear photos of the fish and the 'spots' you say you see before I can provide any suggestions.

[rbu1]

I will need to see clear photos of the fish and the 'spots' you say you see before I can provide any suggestions.

Lee,

That is almost impossible. I only have a cheap point and shot and have tried numerous times to get a photo with 0 luck of being able to tell what the heck you are looking at. Is there a way to distinguish between ich and any other possible thing??

[leebca]

That will be up to your ability to diagnose it properly, then. Go to this post and follow the recommendations and descriptions, for a diagnosis: Curing Fish of Marine Ich

Then, you tell us.

[rbu1]

That will be up to your ability to diagnose it properly, then. Go to this post and follow the recommendations and descriptions, for a diagnosis: Curing Fish of Marine Ich

Then, you tell us.

Here is a pic I got of his cloudy eye. THis has since cleared up almost 100%. The areas on the pectoral fins are so hard to see. You can only see them when light shines thru the fins and they are extended from the body.

[rbu1]

That will be up to your ability to diagnose it properly, then. Go to this post and follow the recommendations and descriptions, for a diagnosis: Curing Fish of Marine Ich

Then, you tell us.

From what I have always seen on ich they are raised salt like parasites. These things on his fins are not raised salt looking things at all almost like cloudy spots that are small. Some are round and some are different shapes.

[ToddTT]

From what I have always seen on ich they are raised salt like parasites. These things on his fins are not raised salt looking things at all almost like cloudy spots that are small. Some are round and some are different shapes.

Any updates?

Salt like appearance is the most commonly recognized manifestation. But the appearance may vary based on the stage. Luckily I'm not that familiar with it myself, so I don't have much more to offer.

Brighter lighting might help you get clearer pics.

If the angel flashing? Scratching against surfaces?

[ToddTT]

By the way, another, much smaller QT might make things a little easier, and cheaper in the long run. Less water to treat, smaller water changes, less water to remove meds from.

The extra QT may also come in handy if you need to QT multiple fish for different reasons. Or if you choose to designate a single QT for copper treatments.

And run to Best Buy and get a new camera! ;) You'll be wanting to take more pics of your tank in the future anyway.

[leebca]

That is a better description. (Photo didn't help). They are not 'spots.' They are whitish patches on the fish. Now I know what it is you're looking at.

The fish has a skin infection. There is at least one problem here at work: poor nutrition; poor water quality; an adaptation problem; or the fact that the adult large Angels just don't do well in captivity in a small space (some need 500 gallons right from the start); or any combo of these.

You can rid the fish of the infection, but if you just return the fish to its normal or usual environment with the usual nutrition, the fish will likely contract the same problem(s).

Treat with a topical antibiotic. But like I wrote above, this isn't the long term solution -- it will get the fish over this patch, but not solve the other problem(s) that are going on. I would suggest the use of an antibiotic containing Nitrofurazone. To help repair the mucous coating on the fish, use either Pro Tech Coat Marine or StressGuard.

Follow package instructions for the treatment.

[rbu1]

Thanks everyone. My hope is that my description was good enough to make your statement correct Lee.

The fish is showing no other signs, no flashing, no heavy breathing, no rubbing on PVC pipe nothing at all. I talked to 3 different people yesterday one was a marine biologist and they all feel confident that it is a bacterial issue and not a parasite. As stated above I just hope my description is accurate enough for people to make that statement. I am going to move this fish over to the main tank tonight and keep my fingers crossed that I did a proper QT. My next set of fish are a pair of crosshatch triggers. I was able to locate a rather small pair in the 4"-5" range. Hopefully the angel becomes more comfortable in the 300 if I tell the wife I need a bigger tank I might be single........

Thanks again for the suggestions.

[ToddTT]

My next set of fish are a pair of crosshatch triggers. I was able to locate a rather small pair in the 4"-5" range.

Male/female?

You might want to wait until your fish are 100% healthy before looking into more additions.

[rbu1]

Not sure I follow your logic Todd....The Blue angel is going to be put in the main tank tonight leaving the 125 QT empty. The Crosshatches are being delivered Thursday and will be QT'd for at least 2 months. A pair is one female and one male.

[ToddTT]

Not sure I follow your logic Todd....The Blue angel is going to be put in the main tank tonight leaving the 125 QT empty. The Crosshatches are being delivered Thursday and will be QT'd for at least 2 months. A pair is one female and one male.

Just being cautious, considering all is not yet well, and now your QT will be tied up for weeks with new fish.

You could QT the triggers, and find out a few days later you need to QT the angel again, or multiple fish from the display tank.

Not the end of the world, you may just wind up needing to set up another small QT in an emergency.

[rbu1]

I think I was more then cautious. This angel has been in QT or 2 months. How many people can say they QT and treat fish for 2 months. My hope is that what I see on the fins is a result of all the treatments the fish has been thru and putting him in better water quality in the main tank will get rid of it.

3 weeks of copper
2 - 4 day treatments of Prazi Pro
and a total of 2 months in QT should be more than enough treatment. If not I think I am going to find another hobby....

[ToddTT]

I think I was more then cautious. This angel has been in QT or 2 months. How many people can say they QT and treat fish for 2 months. My hope is that what I see on the fins is a result of all the treatments the fish has been thru and putting him in better water quality in the main tank will get rid of it.

3 weeks of copper
2 - 4 day treatments of Prazi Pro
and a total of 2 months in QT should be more than enough treatment. If not I think I am going to find another hobby....

I think you've done great by this fish so far.

And take some enjoyment in knowing that you've given it a much better chance than many others would have.

Getting through episodes like this can sometimes be one of the most rewarding parts of the "hobby". Quotes because it is often more serious than just a casual hobby.

Good luck.