Help! Lion Fish not eating and appears to be sluggish and a little pale in color.

[Mahi]

Lion Fish stopped eating about a week ago and appears to be sluggish and a little pale in color. There is live feeder fish and shirimp in tank and just doesn't have an appetite anymore. Starting to get concerned. Recently did a 20% water change about a week ago but it didn't help. Any suggestions?

[ToddTT]

What sort of feeder fish? How often do you feed these? When did he last eat one?

How long have you had him?

What water tests have you done? Ammonia, nitrite, PH, temperature, salinity, etc.

[Mahi]

What sort of feeder fish?
Baby Mullet i caught in the ocean.

How often do you feed these?
About 20 were left in the tank alive to
be eaten as well as some live (small feeder) shrimps I also caught in the ocean.

When did he last eat one? About a week ago.

How long have you had him? 3 years but in current tank for about 5
months. He always ate fine except for about two weeks ago.

What water tests have you done?
None recently. But only a 20% water change with Salinity at 33. Temp is at around 74 degrees.

> Ammonia, nitrite, PH, temperature, salinity, etc.

[ToddTT]

Well, better marine fish than freshwater, but my concern is the same, especially considering the number of fish he has had available to eat.

Sometimes Lionfish can develop obstructions caused primarily by the skulls of the fish it is eating.

I would pick up some tests for your water, and do another water change. A well done water change is rarely a bad idea, and can often give a stressed animal some relief.

But you really want to get some readings to eliminate ammonia, nitrite, and PH as possible issues.

I would also stop feeding live food immediately. It can promote aggressive behavior, introduce disease and parasites, and cause obstructions.

I'm not sure what else to suggest.

How is he doing now? Any changes?

[Mahi]

He's still not eating and looks just as pale in color. I'll try to remove any remaining live mullet fish as well as doing a water change. How much would you recommend at this time in regards to a water change? 25%? 50% If I remove the feeder fish, what's he going to eat if and when he gains his appetite back?

[ToddTT]

Is it possible that your water quality has degraded over time?

What equipment do you have, and have you been keeping up with water changes? What else is in your system? Live rock, sand, other fish/inverts? How long has this tank been running?

If in doubt (water quality), I would do a larger water change, closer to 50%. But you'll want to match your temp, PH, and salinity as close as possible. And mix the water for 24+ hours before adding to your tank:

How to Make a Successful Water Change

If you test your water and find ammonia or nitrites, an even larger water change. And then repeated until they cannot be detected.

If I remove the feeder fish, what's he going to eat if and when he gains his appetite back?

If those feeder fish are the only thing he has eaten in captivity, maybe keep the smallest one in the tank with him, so you can at least tell if he starts eating again.

Aside from that, I would say krill, squid, chopped table shrimp, etc. Maybe a feeder prong to help simulate live food.

Fenner mentions the following as a possible substitute for live food as well... floating sticks:

Hikari Aquatic Diets - Aquatic diets for tropical & marine fish

He suggests adding food like this at the same time as live food, to help them transition away from strictly live. Unfortunately, you do not have the luxury of this approach at the moment.

And remove uneaten food that he pays no attention to (which could be most or all of it at the moment).

Good luck, and hopefully others have more advice for you.

[Mahi]

I'll do the major water change and try to convert him to frozen food instead. I have a: 300 Gal tank w/ Wet dry filter, Corallife 36 Watt UV Sterilizer, Protein Skimmer, and Chiller. I've been keeping up with water changes like once a month. Just remembered that I added like 20 or more small feeder (Mullets) as well as 20 shimps in a kind of short period of time ago. 3 weeks, approx. Since then, I've recently done a 20% water change like a week and Half ago. Haven't added any more fish or shrimp since then. The tank has been up and running for about 5 months. I have an Emperor Angel (Juvenile), Tomato clown, Blue Hippo Tang, Panther grouper (kind of not eating live fish/ shrimp as well for about same amount of time), Small Puffer, Leaf Fish (that hasn't been eating live fish/shrimp as well). Coincedence? Could be the same problem?, Morish Idol, Purple Tang, Flame Angel, and 2 convict tangs. NO live rock or sand. That's about it. Wish me luck. Thanks for the help.

[ToddTT]

I'll do the major water change and try to convert him to frozen food instead. I have a: 300 Gal tank w/ Wet dry filter, Corallife 36 Watt UV Sterilizer, Protein Skimmer, and Chiller. I've been keeping up with water changes like once a month. Just remembered that I added like 20 or more small feeder (Mullets) as well as 20 shimps in a kind of short period of time ago. 3 weeks, approx. Since then, I've recently done a 20% water change like a week and Half ago. Haven't added any more fish or shrimp since then. The tank has been up and running for about 5 months. I have an Emperor Angel (Juvenile), Tomato clown, Blue Hippo Tang, Panther grouper (kind of not eating live fish/ shrimp as well for about same amount of time), Small Puffer, Leaf Fish (that hasn't been eating live fish/shrimp as well). Coincedence? Could be the same problem?, Morish Idol, Purple Tang, Flame Angel, and 2 convict tangs. NO live rock or sand. That's about it. Wish me luck. Thanks for the help.

Big system! I would test all of your levels before committing to a 150 gallon water change.

You always want to rule out water quality right away, so my concern for your setup would be that it never cycled sufficiently, and hasn't been able to process ammonia and nitrite as needed.

Live rock and a deep sand bed will be your best filtration. I'd focus on adding those before adding anything else to the tank.

Most here will suggest you eventually eliminate the wet/dry.

If things take a turn for the worse, you may benefit from having a quarantine tank ready. Do you have one?

A Fish Quarantine Process

If you check back in a bit you can expect more feedback from others.

[leebca]

If you eliminate water quality, environment concerns, and disease, the next concern it the mundane diet of the same food. No variety. Also, the feeder fishes should have been occasionally gut loaded with vitamin and fat supplements. A single food is usually not nutritious for a long and good life.

These fish also eat crustaceans (crabs, shrimp, etc.) so its diet should have been wide and varied.

It could just also be that this is the end of the fish's life. Stressors reduce their life span so depending on the stress the fish has seen over its capture and captivity it can just plain had enough.

Also, keep in mind that sometimes these fish do go on a hunger fast all on their own and come out of it on their own. They are predators and should only be fed two or three times a weeks, not all the time. When faced with a regular supply of food, they can stop eating to 'even out' their usual wild eating habits.

[Mahi]

Okay, just tested the water quality. PH = 8.0; Amonia = 0; Nitrite = 0; Nitrate = 20. I'm assuming a water change is not neccessary at the moment? He still appears pale and not moving around hardly. There are still some feeder (mullet) fish in the tank for him as well as some feeder shrimp which he still shows no interest in. There's a bit of cloudiness in his eyes i noticed but not much. Any more suggestions would be appreciated.

[ToddTT]

Okay, just tested the water quality. PH = 8.0; Amonia = 0; Nitrite = 0; Nitrate = 20. I'm assuming a water change is not neccessary at the moment? He still appears pale and not moving around hardly. There are still some feeder (mullet) fish in the tank for him as well as some feeder shrimp which he still shows no interest in. There's a bit of cloudiness in his eyes i noticed but not much. Any more suggestions would be appreciated.

Your PH is a little low. Wouldn't hurt to raise it slowly over the next week. But I doubt that will help the current problem.

He's not eating, so improving his diet will be difficult. But I would experiment with different foods and a feeding prong.

Lionfish are active at night, so you might try enticing him with the feeding prong at different hours, and with low lighting.

If you find anything that he will eat, make sure to soak everything in supplements.

Your ammonia and nitrites are not a problem, so a large water change may or may not have an impact on how he is feeling. But this would be easier if you moved him out of the 300 and into a 20 gallon QT for example.

There are no other sources of stress, such as other fish antagonizing him? Doubtful, but you never know.

Are the cloudy eyes a new symptom, or do you think they may have been cloudy for a while?

I wonder if there is a broad spectrum treatment that might be worth a shot? Others here will know better.

Good luck.

[Mahi]

Your PH is a little low. Wouldn't hurt to raise it slowly over the next week. But I doubt that will help the current problem.

He's not eating, so improving his diet will be difficult. But I would experiment with different foods and a feeding prong.

Lionfish are active at night, so you might try enticing him with the feeding prong at different hours, and with low lighting.

If you find anything that he will eat, make sure to soak everything in supplements.

Your ammonia and nitrites are not a problem, so a large water change may or may not have an impact on how he is feeling. But this would be easier if you moved him out of the 300 and into a 20 gallon QT for example.

There are no other sources of stress, such as other fish antagonizing him? Doubtful, but you never know.

Are the cloudy eyes a new symptom, or do you think they may have been cloudy for a while?

I wonder if there is a broad spectrum treatment that might be worth a shot? Others here will know better.

Good luck.

His eyes have been slightly cloudy for about 3 weeks or so. Not getting worse but not getting better. Not sure if it matters but my Panther Grouper and my Leaf Fish are not eating as well. Not sure if coincedence. I'm also going to try some different food / feeding method and see if they take it. FYI: My Emperor (Juvenile) has blotch marks on his sides which I thought was from poor water quality but eliminated that today. Is there something I'm missing?

[ToddTT]

His eyes have been slightly cloudy for about 3 weeks or so. Not getting worse but not getting better. Not sure if it matters but my Panther Grouper and my Leaf Fish are not eating as well. Not sure if coincedence. I'm also going to try some different food / feeding method and see if they take it. FYI: My Emperor (Juvenile) has blotch marks on his sides which I thought was from poor water quality but eliminated that today. Is there something I'm missing?

I'm rethinking the water change, despite the test results. It can't hurt, if done properly, and you have multiple fish with various symptoms.

Will you be using filtered water and a quality salt mix? This will give you the best and most controlled results.

I'd do a large change, 50% or more.

Keep an eye on all fish and their symptoms, and note all changes. And if there's anything else that can be done, someone like Lee will know.

[leebca]

The added fasting of the other fishes seems to indicate a water quality problem. Do the large water change (over 85%) and follow these guidelines: How to Make a Successful Water Change

Then, perform another large water change in two days. If both eyes are still cloudy it is best to treat with an antibiotic at this point.

You are only testing a few of the things that can be tested, as far as water quality is concerned, and I wonder what else might be in the water we don't test for, or where the other parameters (alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium) lay. You should read this: What is Water Quality

You can tell us more about your maintenance, what you use for source water, and the equipment you are running, in addition to more information about the water quality, if you need additional help.