Disease in hepathus and flame angelfish

[Miguel B]

I`ve been away for 3 days and I just arrived home. My hepathus has some white patches on the skin and my flame angel has one big spot or pimple on one of the sides of its body. They are eating well and active and show no signs of breathing difficulties. My other fish: acanthurus Coeruleus, lemon peel tang, geniacanthus melanospilos and 3 green chromis show no simptoms at all. I did not introduce nothing in my tank recently and do 10% water change every week.

I dont know if this can be something bacterial or viral?

[leebca]

The 'pimple' type condition is usually bacterial. It can be caused by a couple of problems in the tank, including but not limited to: water quality, build up of organics, dirty/unmaintained filters and tank, etc.

The white patches are usually caused by water quality issues. Since that is the usual source, then I'd say the 'pimple' type condition is from the same problem. Both fishes will need a treatment with an antibiotic and help with their coating system by use of a product made to replace and support the fish's coating (like Pro Tech Coat Marine or StressGuard).

Even when they recover, you'll still have the problem of dealing with the water quality.

[Miguel B]

The 'pimple' type condition is usually bacterial. It can be caused by a couple of problems in the tank, including but not limited to: water quality, build up of organics, dirty/unmaintained filters and tank, etc.

The white patches are usually caused by water quality issues. Since that is the usual source, then I'd say the 'pimple' type condition is from the same problem. Both fishes will need a treatment with an antibiotic and help with their coating system by use of a product made to replace and support the fish's coating (like Pro Tech Coat Marine or StressGuard).

Even when they recover, you'll still have the problem of dealing with the water quality.

I have feed the fish well with frozen enriched foods diferent types every day and the hepathus looked well after two days. Now after a week he is still very active and eating very well but has spots like cryptocarium but he does not scrape himself at all and my other surgeon fish Acanthurus Caruelus is spotless?? my two angels Geniacanthus and flame angel have a type of white coton like small thing under scales the geniacanthus near the head and the flame angel on one his side. All my fish were QT for at leat 8 weeks and did treatment with cupramine. My Acanthurus Caruelus (the bigguer fish in the display ) has become quite a bully lately and pushes the Hepathus quite a bit. However the Hepathus stands up to him and dont seem to mind him at all.

I do 15% water changes weekly with 4 stage RO\DI water and a good quality salt mix. I sinphon the thin sand bed for debries removal during water changes also. I use a good skimmer.
My water readings are:

Amonia - 0
No2 - 0
No3 - 2 mg\L
KH - 10,8
Cal - 430
Mg - 1300
PO4 - 0,02

These fishes are in my display tank how should I proceed?

[leebca]

Not unusual for bacterial conditions to open the door for opportunistic microbes. That is what they are now likely progressing toward. The antibiotic treatment would have likely stopped this development. Now it becomes more difficult to control. Many pathogens act and look like fungus but they aren't and can be hard to kill/control out. Fungal infections of the true kind are almost impossible to cure.

You have to diagnose the spots you see. If you want to provide photos I might be able to help with the diagnosis. Until you can tell what they are, there isn't a treatment to do for them. Not all spots are Marine Ich and when one fish has it, not all other fishes will display the spots. If you believe it has Marine Ich, then follow these guidelines: Curing Fish of Marine Ich

The water analysis looks good, but I don't know about organics. You use a skimmer, that's good. What does the skimmate look like? How often do you clean out the skimmer? the skimmer column? Do you use activated carbon or any other chemical filter? A skimmer will remove only a part of the organics; the other part is removed by the chemical filter. Does your system have a good mechanical filter and circulation? Look for junk build up. Are there any other stressors that may be happening? Are the fish too large for the tank or anything like that?

How is tank stability? In general, is the pH steady? the temperature steady? the sp. gr. steady? How do you measure the pH and sp. gr.?

If it is decided the fish have Marine Ich, then treat with Cupramine according to the above link AND at the same time, treat with a systemic antibiotic that can be used with Cupramine. If you are sure Marine Ich is not present, move all fish to quarantine and treat with a systemic antibiotic, however now, some of the fish may not recover. I hope they all do, though.

Hobbyists who quarantine then find their display system infected with something have usually let a pathogen get into the aquarium without a proper quarantine or treatment. Cross contamination is the most common.

[Miguel B]

Not unusual for bacterial conditions to open the door for opportunistic microbes. That is what they are now likely progressing toward. The antibiotic treatment would have likely stopped this development. Now it becomes more difficult to control. Many pathogens act and look like fungus but they aren't and can be hard to kill/control out. Fungal infections of the true kind are almost impossible to cure.

You have to diagnose the spots you see. If you want to provide photos I might be able to help with the diagnosis. Until you can tell what they are, there isn't a treatment to do for them. Not all spots are Marine Ich and when one fish has it, not all other fishes will display the spots. If you believe it has Marine Ich, then follow these guidelines: Curing Fish of Marine Ich

The water analysis looks good, but I don't know about organics. You use a skimmer, that's good. What does the skimmate look like? How often do you clean out the skimmer? the skimmer column? Do you use activated carbon or any other chemical filter? A skimmer will remove only a part of the organics; the other part is removed by the chemical filter. Does your system have a good mechanical filter and circulation? Look for junk build up. Are there any other stressors that may be happening? Are the fish too large for the tank or anything like that?

How is tank stability? In general, is the pH steady? the temperature steady? the sp. gr. steady? How do you measure the pH and sp. gr.?

If it is decided the fish have Marine Ich, then treat with Cupramine according to the above link AND at the same time, treat with a systemic antibiotic that can be used with Cupramine. If you are sure Marine Ich is not present, move all fish to quarantine and treat with a systemic antibiotic, however now, some of the fish may not recover. I hope they all do, though.

Hobbyists who quarantine then find their display system infected with something have usually let a pathogen get into the aquarium without a proper quarantine or treatment. Cross contamination is the most common.

Hi Leebca thank you for your help! I tryed to take some pictures with my camera but I cant take the picture close enough to see the spots or anything. If I had to "guess" I would say its marine ich. Its showing himself again because the hepatus is being disturbed by my other Acanthurus. Although I did QT and treated them with Cupramine the hepatus has had one or two spots from time to time in the display tank! Now that he is being challenged and stressed by this other fish I guess he is loosing some kind of temporary imunity he had to it. The other angels I think they have some kind of infection from a possible fight wound or rock cut lesion.

[leebca]

Start by following this post's guidelines: Curing Fish of Marine Ich

Cupramine treatment works when you:
1) Follow medication instructions;
2) Measure/monitor the copper content (using proper test kit); and
3) Control contamination.

The link above suggests you look at photos you can find on the Internet to confirm your diagnosis.

If the areas are white, but not fuzzy, then it is fish flesh healing itself. So if this is from an injury, that is most likely what you are seeing. If truly fuzzy, then it's one of the opportunistic microbes I had mentioned earlier.

;)

[Ades1957]

Caution..
DO NOT USE ANY COPPER BASED MEDICATION IT WILL KILL...

go to this link..

Breeder's Net: Effects of Copper Exposure on Marine Ornamental Fish Reproduction and Survival | Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine


regards Adrian

[leebca]

Another rather old thread. However I must point out that the proper use of Cupramine (a copper based fish medication) is very safe and appropriate for the curing of ornamental marine fishes of many diseases.