Please Help with clownfish

[Miguel B]

Hello, after almost two month in my tank my two clownfish look sick they are still very active and eating well.

Can you please help and id this disease and let me know how to treat it.

I also see strange feaces ( white string ) sometimes on both of them.

The other fish show no simptoms and look normal.

Thank you.

[leebca]

I can't quite see what is wrong. Is there excess mucous on the fish? Do you see tiny spots? Not sure from the photos.

Regarding the stringy fecal matter, the fish more than likely has an internal digestive track pathogen. This is covered in this post: Strange Excrement from Fish -or- How to be a Super Pooper Snooper

If the fish have an excess of mucous, they are most likely suffering from a brook (brooklynellosis) infection. You can look on the Internet to see other marine fishes with this disease to get an idea of what fish look like, that have this disease.

This is about all I can tell from what information you have provided and from what I can see in the photos.

[Miguel B]

I can't quite see what is wrong. Is there excess mucous on the fish? Do you see tiny spots? Not sure from the photos.

Regarding the stringy fecal matter, the fish more than likely has an internal digestive track pathogen. This is covered in this post: Strange Excrement from Fish -or- How to be a Super Pooper Snooper

If the fish have an excess of mucous, they are most likely suffering from a brook (brooklynellosis) infection. You can look on the Internet to see other marine fishes with this disease to get an idea of what fish look like, that have this disease.

This is about all I can tell from what information you have provided and from what I can see in the photos.

I can see one biguer spot under the fish mouth like a fungus maybe and on one of the fish sides in the white stripe near the head. They also look like they have a dusty skin in some body regions. Here is an other picure


If it is Brook do I have to treat the other fish as well or just the two clowns?
Can I treat them and place them back in the display or are they more likely to become infected again?
Another thing that is making me doubght if this is Brook or not is the time they look like this over two weeks now. Isnt Brook very agressive and kills fish very fast?

Can I use Seachem Metroplex (100% meronidazole) to treat the intestinal pathogen ? I have it at home.

[leebca]

I see it now. Glad you pointed it out.

Brook is a rapid killer and a slow killer. For the most part, Anemonefishes succomb to it rather quickly. It's that 'dusting effect' which gives the impression of a build-up of mucous.

This 'dusting' and those bumbs are best treated by moving just the infected fishes into a quarantine tank. Treat with Cupramine, following medication instructions and controlling the copper content using a copper test kit. At the same time and during the copper treatment, perform 4 Formalin baths. One bath every other day until 4 are completed. The Formalin bath treatment is given here: Formalin Treatment - Marine Fishes

The treatment tank is like a quarantine tank. If you've not done this before, you'll need to read through this and follow it: A Fish Quarantine Process The fish are kept there in the quarantine tank until the two treatments are over AND they remain there for another 4 weeks for observation, before returning to the DT.

Regarding the internal treatment: Note that Meronidazol treats one out of the three possible internal problems, as you read in the linked post I provided. The most likely intestinal problem is cured using Praziquantel. I mean. . .If it isn't properly diagnosed, it is usually worms and Meronidazol doesn't cure that. The best cure-all is a combo of Meronidazol and Praziquantel.

[Miguel B]

I see it now. Glad you pointed it out.

Brook is a rapid killer and a slow killer. For the most part, Anemonefishes succomb to it rather quickly. It's that 'dusting effect' which gives the impression of a build-up of mucous.

This 'dusting' and those bumbs are best treated by moving just the infected fishes into a quarantine tank. Treat with Cupramine, following medication instructions and controlling the copper content using a copper test kit. At the same time and during the copper treatment, perform 4 Formalin baths. One bath every other day until 4 are completed. The Formalin bath treatment is given here: Formalin Treatment - Marine Fishes

The treatment tank is like a quarantine tank. If you've not done this before, you'll need to read through this and follow it: A Fish Quarantine Process The fish are kept there in the quarantine tank until the two treatments are over AND they remain there for another 4 weeks for observation, before returning to the DT.

Regarding the internal treatment: Note that Meronidazol treats one out of the three possible internal problems, as you read in the linked post I provided. The most likely intestinal problem is cured using Praziquantel. I mean. . .If it isn't properly diagnosed, it is usually worms and Meronidazol doesn't cure that. The best cure-all is a combo of Meronidazol and Praziquantel.

OK so I do the treatment to my clownfish that show simptoms. Do I leave the other fishes in the display tank? What will hapen in the display tank? is it infected?

[leebca]

What is known about this parasite is that it is selective and is transferred from fish to fish. That is, if the fish doesn't exhibit it, it is not infected. That is to also say, in the broadest sense of the term, the tank itself is not infected.

Symptoms are sometimes slow to show, so you still need to keep a close eye on the other fishes. But for now, leave them in the display system.

[Miguel B]

I`m starting the clownfish treatment todayin my QT tank.

Is it OK to QT a small Dejardini tang at the same time in this tank as I`m using Cupramine and the formaline dips for the clownfish treatment. The cupramine would do the preventive treatment against cryptocarium on the surgeonfish.

[leebca]

If the Tang is new, don't quarantine it with the others. Don't forget that a new acquistion can have up to a few dozen problems. Only cure what is needed.

The Desjardini needs a 180 gallon tank for its home, then when it outgrows that, about a 300g or more. It's one of those fishes that looks great but gets big pretty fast.

[Miguel B]

If the Tang is new, don't quarantine it with the others. Don't forget that a new acquistion can have up to a few dozen problems. Only cure what is needed.

The Desjardini needs a 180 gallon tank for its home, then when it outgrows that, about a 300g or more. It's one of those fishes that looks great but gets big pretty fast.

Lee,
Dont you usually advise on administering cooper treatment on all new tangs? Or is it just wrong because of the clowfish condition?
I had this fish ordered for me and my LFS called me saying the fish arrives tomorrow. What should I do I have another empty QT tank (90 liter) that I could fill with my display tank water. The other tank with Cupramine treatment that started today for the clownfish is biguer 150 liter. What should I do?

[leebca]

I write a lot -- sometimes maybe too much. It's easy to merge some recommendations.

What I recommend is to treat all Acanthurus sp. Tangs with Cupramine. The Desjardini is not of this Genus. Neither is the Yellow Tang, or the Regal Tang, and many other Tangs.

The size of the QT is important for quickening of disease and parasite displays. You don't want a tank that is too large. The sticky on QT setup indicates the proper way to size the QT. You size it to the fish.

The Tang should be quarantined separately from the Anemonefish, not because of anything other than two things: the Tang could be bringing with it even more diseases or parasites that the Anemonefish should not be exposed to and vice versa -- whatever is wrong with the Anemonefish should not infect the Tang.

[Miguel B]

I write a lot -- sometimes maybe too much. It's easy to merge some recommendations.

What I recommend is to treat all Acanthurus sp. Tangs with Cupramine. The Desjardini is not of this Genus. Neither is the Yellow Tang, or the Regal Tang, and many other Tangs.

The size of the QT is important for quickening of disease and parasite displays. You don't want a tank that is too large. The sticky on QT setup indicates the proper way to size the QT. You size it to the fish.

The Tang should be quarantined separately from the Anemonefish, not because of anything other than two things: the Tang could be bringing with it even more diseases or parasites that the Anemonefish should not be exposed to and vice versa -- whatever is wrong with the Anemonefish should not infect the Tang.

Thank you for your answer. I opted by leaving the tang in the LFS.

I was just checking on the clown fish and they are much worse today. I`m still am not shure what is wrong with them but maybe is something bacterial and not brookinella or both. they entered the QT tank with cupramine yesterday evening looking like you saw on the first photos I posted earlier and now they have tail fin-rot and sores. I´m not shure If I can do mutch for them now. Should I continue treatment or try and change treatment?

[reeferbill]

Hi Miguel B , Brooknelia can get worse before it gets better. How are your clowns now? Good Luck!

[Miguel B]

Hi Miguel B , Brooknelia can get worse before it gets better. How are your clowns now? Good Luck!

They are strugling they had signs of infection yesterday but the fins were ok. Today they have tail fin rot that is growing pretty fast

[leebca]

The recommended treatment was to do BOTH Cupramine and Formalin. I'm afraid without both the treatments, the fish will not likely be cured. If you are unable to perform the Formalin part of the double treatment, then you might consider that the copper concentration is too high.

How do you measure the copper content? Are you using a copper test kit? What is the copper concentration right now?

If the copper concentration is where it belongs, then there isn't much else to do for the fish, that I know of, other than the Formalin treatment.

[Miguel B]

The recommended treatment was to do BOTH Cupramine and Formalin. I'm afraid without both the treatments, the fish will not likely be cured. If you are unable to perform the Formalin part of the double treatment, then you might consider that the copper concentration is too high.

How do you measure the copper content? Are you using a copper test kit? What is the copper concentration right now?

If the copper concentration is where it belongs, then there isn't much else to do for the fish, that I know of, other than the Formalin treatment.

The fish had a formalin dip before entering the tank with cooper.
One of the clown fish died during the night. The remaning one is going to do the second dip today.

Copper consentration is about 0.5 with the salifert test kit which I dont like very much because I find it difficult to read.

As I saw the fins disapearing in less than 24hours I decided to add to the tank Seachem Kanaplex to try and treat for anything bacterial that could be killing the fish. I dont even know if the antibiotic works in the presence of cooper but this morning the fish that made it through the night is looking much better and eating and the fin-rot stoped.

I know I should not mix treatments but the fish looked like it was going to die if I didnt try nothing to stop the fin rot and sores that started after the first dip and entering the tank with cupramine

[leebca]

Adding the antibiotic is a good idea. The one thing about Cupramine is that it is compatible with many of the antibiotics. The kind of antibiotic you don't ever want to use with a copper treatment are those that are sulfa-based.

The bacterial infection is secondary to the problem. The bacteria take advantage of a weakened, sick fish. The copper-Formalin treatment should stop the original problem -- if the fish will just make it through the treatment. It may be caught too late, but you need to try and you are doing that.

Good luck!