Color/feeding problem

[Francois]

Dear reeflanders.

Lately, I've been having a problem with the coloration of my blue hippo tang. The blue color is not as striking as in other tangs I've seen. I feed the fish ocean nutition spirulina flake, as well as some green nori. However, when I offer the fish spinach or salad, he ignores it and does not eat it. I've read Lee's different articles on feeding, and I can't seem to get down to a conclusion regarding my problem.

I don't think the fish is sick, it eats well, and does not show any signs of illness (I've seen him scratching very rarely)... I did quarantine the fish when I got him a couple months ago, and I exposed him to copper for a too long period of time, which I did discuss about in another post).

This could also be caused by the decor the fish sleeps in, you'll see in the following pictures, it is the white cauliflower coral decoration on the left of the tank. Maybe the fish loses some of his scales because of the decoration...

The following pictures should help you see the color problem (unfortunately, the contrast of my camera makes it that the fish looks beautiful. But you can still see areas of discoloration, especially on the black body mark). Let me know what you think about it.

Tank picture : ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Tang picture : ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Tang + decoration picture : ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Thanks

[reeferbill]

Hi Francois ; I think your tang has some kind of infection, it looks like a dusting of powder. Are you sure it is not ick? Do the other fish show any signs of anything else or the same thing. Google marine fish diseases or read the stickies.

[reeferbill]

I think it could be Brooknela or the start of head and lateral line disease . I would start soaking the fish food in some Selcon ( liquid vitamin and food supplement, follow directions)

[leebca]

Your tank looks new. Much too clean.

Tell me more about the chemistry. Do you do the following tests and if so, tell me the actual, current numbers:
ammonia
nitrite
nitrate
alkalinity
calcium
magnesium
pH
salinity (or specific gravity)

Please also tell me how you are measuring the above -- test strips, test kits, equipment, etc.

Tell me more about the tank:
When was it first set up? When did it cycle?
How long have you had these fish (each one)? Were they put into the tank together? Where did they come from (LFS, online, or ?)?

Now, tell me what you are feeding these fish? How often do you feed? What quantity do you feed? (i.e., how long is the feeding process).

The fish may have a disease as reeferbill suspects, but without additional information, I can't separate poisoning (from water conditions), a poor diet mal-nutrition, or a disease.

[schabiazabi]

A little off topic maybe, but where did you get such a small Threadfin Butterfly?

And more on topic: When I read Lee's post on nutrition, I realized fish are fish and they eat what is in the ocean, and not on land. Therefore I throw out all flake food/wheat food/low protein food. Not to mention spinach, salads, carrots. Even knowing nothing about fish I never tried that. That made zero sense to me.

I have no idea what is wrong with your fish colors, but I followed the sticky post on fish feeding, plus I added vitamins and helpers: Selcon, Zeo, Zeocon, Vitamin C, D, Vita Chem, and etc. After few days I noticed a difference. The fish became full, more colorful, and happy.

Being a big fan of Tangs and doing some research I can tell you that this fish needs a perfect diet, otherwise it's not going to look good at all. Tangs have a very long digestive system. When you do not feed them right you will see "bumps" on the body when looking at young fish. They are also very energetic when they are small. It means you have to feed them 3 times per day at least, plus you must provide different algae every day on top of the feedings.

The good news is once you get your diet dialed in, your fish will show improvements very fast. I bought 0.5 inch Royal Tangs, and after 1 month they have DOUBLED in size.

[Francois]

Hello,

Thanks for your replies, I wasn't able to go on the forum for a few days, because I was always redirected to squidoo.com, it was very very annoying. Anyways:

To reply to Lee's post:

Water Chemistry:
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Ph 8.1
Alkalinity 12 (dKh)
Temp 27 (Celsius)
Density 1.019-1.020 (Low to prevent, as much as I can, any outbreak of some parasites)
I don't test for magnesium, calcium..., maybe I should start since I have an Archaster Typicus. Let me know if you think it's necessary.

To test these parameters, I use API bottle test kit, honestly, it seems to work well. Unfortunately, since I bought it in the USA, and I now live in France, when I run out of it, I will have to buy a different brand, probably JBL.

The tank was first set up on November 7th. I then had an outbreak of Cryptocarion, and left the tank running fishless for 8 weeks. At that time, I had two ocellaris clowns, one died, and one survived and was treated with copper.
I then QT'd and added the tang to my tank in February I believe.
I then added the butterflyfish on the April third, and the Solorensis wrasse on April tenth.
Yesterday, I added my last fish, a gorgeous centropyge loriculus (needless to say that it is very expensive in France, since it comes from Hawai, whereas most of the other tropical marine fish come from closer areas (red sea...)

I bought them all from the same LFS, except for the clown, which I got in another LFS.

Feeding:

Actually, I believe this is the origin of the tang problem... I feed my fish once a day, and every day. I read in some literature that it was better to feed once per day, in other literature, I read three times per day, let me know what you think.

I feed the whole tank with Ocean nutrition products : Prime reef, Brine shrimp +, and spirulina one. I soak all these foods in Atvitol (a vitamin supplement from JBL), every day.
I sometimes (not often), feed nori to the tang, and that is probably the root of the problem. I think this guy needs more vegetable matter. I tried feeding salad, but he didn't touch it. I bought yesterday some purple seaweed. My problem with Nori and seaweed, is that when I leave it on my feeding clip, the tang does not touch it, so, I have to cut and crush it between my fingers, to make very small pieces, that the tang will then eat.
My other concern is that every fish eats everything. For example, the tang eats as much Spirulina and brine shrimp as the clownfish or the wrasse...

I really need advice and ideas on how to feed these fish, I know I'm doing something wrong, let me know what it is. Btw, I have read a lot, but none of the literature really tells you explicitly how and what to feed. It's always very vague and unprecise.

Reply to Schabiazabi:"

I really don't know how my LFS gets such small threadfin butterflyfish, but, I had told the guy that I wanted a small one, and that's what he got me. Moreover, I live in France, and, in Europe, there is a certain legislation on the aquarium trade, stricter than in the US. Thus, I believe it's not allowed to import adult fish, but, I'm not sure, I will look at it carefully and let you know, if you're interested.

Thanks for your positive attitude, that cherrs me up, and motivates me. I will definitely feed my tang a lot more, especially since I have a massive biological and mechanical filter in my sump.

Thanks to all of you for your help and your advice.

[leebca]

Thanks for answering my questions. These are some of my observations and suggestions:

1. The addition of fish is too fast. The tank needs time to adjust to a change in bioload. Add fish in the future very slowly (one every 6 weeks).

2. Unclear if those other fishes (added in April) were quarantined or not. May have introduced unwanted organisms.

3. Sticking to sea/ocean food products is definitely what to do. Unfortunately, a slight quirk in the hobby -- Brine shrimp are not from the ocean. They contain very little nutritional value. So besides NOT feeding land products, don't use products that contain a high amount of brine shrimp and avoid using products that contain any brine shrimp.

4. Your best guides for feeding include the posts I've linked here, below:
Fish Health through Proper Nutrition
In the above post, pay close attention to:
Information regarding pellet, flake, and disc foods, check under the heading of Flake, Pellet, Stick, and Disk Foods in that post.
and
How To Feed Macro Alage to Marine Fishes

5. You'll find some challenges in Europe. The hobby regulations in most of Europe prohibit the collecting of even macro algae in certain areas. You'll find medications that vary quite a bit than what we have access to here in the USA.

6. The value of testing for alkalinity, calcium and magnesium is that these three need to be kept in balance. Water changes don't do this. Most hobbyists are not told about this, in an effort to get them to believe that keeping marine fishes is easy. You want to read this post and in it you'll find a section that addresses the balance: What is Water Quality.

7. The Anemonefish needs vegetables too. It's an omnivore. Foods that contain a lot of spirulina are also good sources of vegetables.

8. How to feed is a subject in the food links above.

9. The fish is likely going to heal itself with enough of the right kinds of foods. If you switch diet and quantity provided, give it a few weeks and let us know how things go.

10. Having zero nitrates is not reasonable. Either the test kit is bad, you guessed at the number, or ?

Do more reading and ask questions on anything you have read about.