Early stage of Ich? Leebca?

[iClown]

These spots were spotted on 4/25. Now they're gone. However, according to Leebca's writing:

"8. Spots appear then disappear as MI goes through its cycle. Remember 2. This 'disappearing act' is what leads uninformed aquarists to believe the fish are cured. This is the dumbest thing aquarists can possibly think about this parasite!"

Does the ich cycle apply to me?

[schabiazabi]

Since I can't sleep, I'll try to answer it for you.

It very well could be Marine Ich. It can complete a cycle in as little as 6 days. Since you notice the spots few days ago and they fall off now, it plays to the fact that it could be M.I.

This disease increases ten fold every 6-8 days. It means there will be way more spots next time around. They could already be there, you just do not see it. Observe the fish and if you see new spots you will need to remove it and perform hypo.

In case this is your only fish in the tank you can remove this clownfish to the observation tank (different tank) and pray you were lucky enough to remove the fish before the theronts got to him. You can try this even if you have more than one fish there, but your chance of getting lucky is small. This gives you a shot of not having to perform any treatment.

Btw, your system needs to go fallow for 8 weeks at least. If you have other fish in this tank they will need to be treated as well.

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

To me, the pictures are clear enough to positively identify ich. Can you describe the spot in more detail? Are there more than just the spots in the picture? Does the fish show any other signs of ich (flashing or breathing heavily)? My clowns had ich at one point and were cured using copper treatment. A while back, I noticed a few spots on one of the fish and although it looked similar to ich, it looked different enough for me to decide that it wasn't ich. With Lee's help, I was able to identify the spot to be a localized bacterial infection (similar to a pimple). It looked embedded in the skin, instead of on top of it. The spot faded over time, rather than disappeared in an instant. I can't tell from your pics but don't rule out other causes for the spots just yet. It would be a shame to treat for ich if it's not there.

[iClown]

Since I can't sleep, I'll try to answer it for you.

It very well could be Marine Ich. It can complete a cycle in as little as 6 days. Since you notice the spots few days ago and they fall off now, it plays to the fact that it could be M.I.

This disease increases ten fold every 6-8 days. It means there will be way more spots next time around. They could already be there, you just do not see it. Observe the fish and if you see new spots you will need to remove it and perform hypo.

In case this is your only fish in the tank you can remove this clownfish to the observation tank (different tank) and pray you were lucky enough to remove the fish before the theronts got to him. You can try this even if you have more than one fish there, but your chance of getting lucky is small. This gives you a shot of not having to perform any treatment.

Btw, your system needs to go fallow for 8 weeks at least. If you have other fish in this tank they will need to be treated as well.

Here are 2 new pictures taken just now. These two spots are kind of small where I'm confused if it is anything at all. Still unsure whether I need to take actions or wait it out for more visible signs.

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

To me, the pictures are clear enough to positively identify ick. Can you describe the spot in more detail? Are there more than just the spots in the picture? Does the fish show any other signs of ick (flashing or breathing heavily)? My clowns had ick at one point and were cured using copper treatment. A while back, I noticed a few spots on one of the fish and although it looked similar to ick, it looked different enough for me to decide that it wasn't ick. With Lee's help, I was able to identify the spot to be a localized bacterial infection (similar to a pimple). It looked embedded in the skin, instead of on top of it. The spot faded over time, rather than disappeared in an instant. I can't tell from your pics but don't rule out other causes for the spots just yet. It would be a shame to treat for ick if it's not there.

Whoops. I meant to say "the pictures are not clear enough to positively identify ich."

[iClown]

To me, the pictures are clear enough to positively identify ick. Can you describe the spot in more detail? Are there more than just the spots in the picture? Does the fish show any other signs of ick (flashing or breathing heavily)? My clowns had ick at one point and were cured using copper treatment. A while back, I noticed a few spots on one of the fish and although it looked similar to ick, it looked different enough for me to decide that it wasn't ick. With Lee's help, I was able to identify the spot to be a localized bacterial infection (similar to a pimple). It looked embedded in the skin, instead of on top of it. The spot faded over time, rather than disappeared in an instant. I can't tell from your pics but don't rule out other causes for the spots just yet. It would be a shame to treat for ick if it's not there.

The white dots are the only visible markings on the body, no where else. No flashing or heavy breathing. He's eating and swimming as normal. The white spots do look embedded in the skin, instead of on top of it. And I really do not want to treat it for ich if it is not ich. Look at the two new spots on the new pictures provided. It's so small I'm unsure what to say of it.

[iClown]

Whoops. I meant to say "the pictures are not clear enough to positively identify ick."

I feel better now

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

Could be a localized bacterial infection (pimple). So far, I've had 3 fish that were infected with ich. My two clowns and my last fish (kole tang). The ich was on top if the skin, not imbedded in it. Also, there were no size differences between each spot. They were uniform in size.
The "pimples" on my clown were different sizes, compared to eachother and "faded" into and out of view over a few days. From my experience, ich doesn't do that. It's more on/ off. I'm sure Lee will educate us if I'm wrong though .

[schabiazabi]

Whatever you do, do not medicate with copper. Clowns take copper very badly, and this pretty Misbar of yours will probably not breed after copper.

[iClown]

Whatever you do, do not medicate with copper. Clowns take copper very badly, and this pretty Misbar of yours will probably not breed after copper.

Thanks for that advice. I do plan to breed in the future....not anytime soon, however.

[iClown]

Ok, so this is getting kind of frustrating. The previous spots are gone/or invisible. Now there are these two new spots! It's almost as if it is "hinting" me that there's something wrong but then again, I don't want to overreact and start playing doctor. Any more ideas? I'm gonna run out to the LFS to buy vita-chem & selcon to see if it helps, either way I need it.

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

Whatever you do, do not medicate with copper. Clowns take copper very badly, and this pretty Misbar of yours will probably not breed after copper.

I did a bit of research on copper affecting fertility and came up with similar conclusions. I also read about people treating anemonefish with copper and witnessing only a pause in breeding, rather than permanent sterilization.

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

Ok, so this is getting kind of frustrating. The previous spots are gone/or invisible. Now there are these two new spots! It's almost as if it is "hinting" me that there's something wrong but then again, I don't want to overreact and start playing doctor. Any more ideas? I'm gonna run out to the LFS to buy vita-chem & selcon to see if it helps, either way I need it.

Your best bet is to do an image search (which I'm sure you have already done) on ich and see if the pictures look the same as the spots on your fish. One could speculate either way by looking at your pics.

[iClown]

"
16. Spots are MI. Untrue. Probably one of the most problematic causes for rumors and myth-information in the hobby is assuming the spot is Marine Ich when it may be one of another few dozen other parasites or conditions (e.g., pimple-like reaction to infection) that look like Marine Ich. The mis-diagnosis is often the cause for claims of what cured MI, when the fish didn't have MI to start with."

That's great Does it or does it not have MI? ........ <------(me)

[leebca]

I believe enough information has been provided to suspect a parasitic infection. The highest probability is Marine Ich, however I would not leap to that conclusion.

For the above reason I would treat with Cupramine (copper medication). Just follow the process beginning with this post and then choosing the copper treatment: Curing Fish of Marine Ich

Also, thank you for reading my posts closely.

[iClown]

Ok thanks Leebca. I'll wait it out for a bit till finals is over. That way I'll have the extra time to proceed with the hypo or copper, if necessary.

Last thing, could it be possible that I've stressed the male out when separated it from his coral from the LFS? Which could have lead to ich? This might be dumb or might not make sense, but thanks again!

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

Last thing, could it be possible that I've stressed the male out when separated it from his coral from the LFS? Which could have lead to ich?

The fish was definitely stressed from being caught, taken from the LFS, and added to a new environment (your tank). But since the parasite had already infected the fish at one point, the stress only allowed it to become visible on the fish, which was a good thing. It allows you to identify it and ultimately treat the infection. A good reason to quarantine new fish before adding it to the DT.
For example, my last fish "looked" healthy at the LFS and I saw no reason not to purchase it. It wasn't until 30 mins after I added it to QT, the moderate/heavy ich infestation became obvious to me. Had I not used a QT process, the fish would have infected my DT and the other three fish in it.
IMO, ich is fairly easy to eradicate. But having multiple fish and an infested DT makes the curing process much more difficult/ stressful for the hobbyist to do so properly.
FWIW, I have only used copper to cure fish of ich because of the added difficulties associated with hypo salinity (maintaining proper salinity and Ph). I likely won't attempt hypo salinity (unless for whatever reason, I can't treat with copper) because of the success I've had with it so far.

[leebca]

Stress neither causes Marine Ich, nor does it allow the parasite to 'invade.' This parasite, known as an obligate parasite, must just find a host to live and multiply. It can be a healthy host, or sick host; a stressed host, or unstressed host. Healthy fish in the ocean have Marine Ich. Up to 30% of them in certain areas.

A stressed fish just means it will show up easily, as FoMoCo has indicated, and it also means it will more likely kill its host in a captive environment. In short, all our captive fishes are stressed to some degree.

[iClown]

I forgot to mention this and it "might" play a role to what's going on now with my male clown:

Recently before the purchase of my current pair, I had another juv. pair that was wild caught. The story about the wild juv. pair:

I went to the LFS and just so happened they had a new shipment. The new batch of fish were all wild and "was still in the shipping container." Unaware of un-quarantined wild fishes and their diseases, I said I'd like two and picked them out. I temp. acclimated them and simply dropped them into the tank along with some of the water in the bag. The next day, I noticed one of clowns had a white string under him or "white poop". He died the next day. The other survived with no problems. I came accross with my "current" pair and purchased them while returning the wild one.

I know, I made a lot of mistakes. But the point of this is, can this possibly be linked to what's going on now with my male clown? Can the internal parasite from the previous dead clown somehow remained in the tank and infected my new male clown? I don't know if this makes any sense, but any advice would be appreciated.

[iClown]

Approximately @ 1:10 and on you can start seeing glimpse of the two white spots. Would you consider this heavy breathing? He usually stays @ a corner at the bottom or top, however, occasionally he swims around like normal. Still eats as normal. Did see him rub against the sand "once or twice" but that was it. I just thought this video might help.

http://youtu.be/gM67ZkWOK6Y