Lymphocystis

[schabiazabi]

I do not want to steal the thread, but can you please elaborate on this:

A fish with Lymph viral infection just needs improved nutrition and environment to get past this condition. With time and proper care, it goes away. Not something that would require putting the fish down.

It is very hard to find anything positive on Lymph. Were you ever able to cure a fish that had Lymph? How long did it take? Was the disease cured once and for all, or it reappeared?

That is one disease I am very afraid of, and until now I have not read one story of anybody that would walk me through curing the fish from Lymph. My plan in case of having a fish with Lymph was to simply give away the fish to anybody that would take it.

[leebca]

I moved your post into its own thread. Thread continuity is important to help others searching for information.

Many hobbyists have come across this viral infection. I thought I'd provide some general information and what the hobbyist should do.

Lymphocystis is a common viral infection of ornamental marine (and freshwater) fishes, caused by a number of related viruses. Most hobbyists refer to this as "Lymph" although honestly it's mostly because it's a hard word to always spell correctly AND remember! Lymphocystis is not fatal unless just totally ignored and the fish is being extra stressed from injury, illness, bad water quality and/or poor nutrition. You of course want to be sure you are in fact dealing with this virus. There are plenty of photos on the Internet for you to see marine fishes with this disease. Many are at various stages. In words, the clumps or nodules appear to be of varying shapes, but quite a bit resembling that of a white to pink cauliflower or a mulberry. These clumps appear on the top of the fish's skin, often found on fins, from pinpoint size to a few mm. They almost 'call to you' to just pick them off! Some are small -- 1 mm or less in size -- majority of them are medium in size -- 2-5 mm in size -- some are larger.

These viruses can live in water without a host for at least up to one week, so far that has been shown in research. The virus is transmitted to other fishes through skin and tissue abrasions (cuts and tares). We probably see nodules where the virus first got a food hold, but this is just my opinion (just so you know the difference between opinion and the facts I present here). However, under microscopic examination, other dermal cells of the fish show infection. So just don't fall into the trap of thinking the virus is just where you see the clumps -- it's all over the fish.

Some cultivated and wild fishes are found to have latent viruses in their system. Add to this a long incubation period (up to several months) and it may seem to the untrained and uneducated person that all fish have it. Infected fishes may never display the nodules! When the fish is captured, handled, netted, transported, etc., etc. is when the fish maybe injured but certainly stressed to the point where the virus will display. In the care of the hobbyist, the virus can display when water quality, environment or feeding is poor (or any combo of these). The handling of uninfected fishes can cause skin abrasions and torn, cut fins which makes them susceptible to being infected by infected fishes. The rough handling adds to the stress on these fishes, which can then cause the virus to display in them, too. Again it seems like all the fish have it. Not true.

The virus can transfer to other, uninfected fishes. If the uninfected fishes are in top condition in high water quality, they will not likely contract the disease. Also, even if the healthy, unstressed fish does get infected, it may never display. In these ways, this virus has some similarity to the human common cold virus. Being exposed to someone with a cold doesn't give you the cold. Most of us have that virus in our systems, but until we are stressed or 'run down' it usually doesn't take hold. Another good analogy here is thinking that the human cold is just in the nose because that is where the symptoms are. Noted above, just because you see the nodules on the fins for instance, doesn't mean that is just where the virus is located.

This group of viruses is unusual. First, these viruses are in the 'self-limiting' category of viruses. When conditions for the fish improve, the viruses go into regression. Not necessarily cured, but the fish no longer displays the nodules. It is up to the hobbyist to prevent the display of this virus by providing high water quality, the proper nutrition, and the proper environment (proper water changes, maintenance of filters, clean up routine, community where fish is safe and not bullied, etc.). Another feature they have is that they are of the higher forms of typical viruses. Not the simplistic kind that children are taught about in high school.

I have had hundreds of marine fishes over the years, displaying Lymphocystis. First thing to do with an infected fish is to remove as many of the stresses on the fish as you can, or at least significantly reduce the stresses. This means:

1) Isolate (quarantine) the fish if any of these things apply:
- i) Fish is covered in many areas with nodules;
- ii) Fish is being harassed by other fish;
- iii) Nodules on the fish's mouth hinder it from eating normally; and/or
- iv) Fish shows signs of secondary infections or disease
2) Improve water quality; and
3) improve environment (clean up, return to proper maintenance, check filters and keep clean, clean out detritus in the entire system, etc.).

The next thing to do is to improve its and all the fish's diet. This means:
a) Provide the proper diet and feed enough food, frequently enough;
b) Use fat and vitamin supplements, especially the right kind of vitamin C (see link below);
c) Use immune boosters (Fish Immune Boosters); and
d) Wait it out.

Remember, a fish displaying this is because it has suffered in your or the previous people's hands that have handled this fish. The fish is stressed, maybe slightly injured. Helping the fish get better will require taking ALL the above actions, just not picking and choosing the ones you want. If the hobbyist is successful at addressing all the above and doing it all diligently, the fish will stop displaying Lymphocystis in anywhere from a couple of weeks to a few months.

If it was necessary to isolate the fish, then treat with an antibiotic. The antibiotic does not cure the fish of Lymphocystis, but will prevent other bacterial and opportunistic pathogens from gaining any foothold. I would recommend treating with Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes. Just follow directions on the medication.

Things that don't work or which pose additional problems include:
I) Trying to get cleaner fish or cleaner shrimp to 'clean' the fish of it;
II) Trying to put medications into the water or trying to medicate the fish; and
III) Scraping the fish with a human fingernail or an instrument. (This will break nodules and send the virus into the water in large numbers, and possibly cause more abrasion to the fish's skin which just means more infection sites AND further stressing the fish).

Things that do help, but which are not necessary to do:
A) Surgically removing the lumps (this require surgery (duh!) and anesthetizing the fish);
B) Isolate the fish (into a QT -- not a big requirement unless 1) above applies) ISOLATE ALL FISHES WITH EXTENSIVE VIRAL INFECTIONS OR WHICH MAY BE DISPLAYING SECONDARY INFECTIONS;
C) If isolated in a QT, swab clumps with Betadiene disinfectant every other day (this requires anesthetizing the fish); and
D) Obtaining the Neon Blue Goby (Elacatinus oceanops). These fish sometimes actually eat it off of some displaying marine fishes (not a cure, just removes what you see for the time being).

It is a poor hobbyist that acquires marine life to 'fix' another fish's or tank's problem, with the exception of clean-up crews. So don't run out and buy a Goby. Just address the things you should and, like the human cold, wait it out.



OTHER INFO

Lymph is not one virus. It is a group of similar viruses. (I don't mean that the whole group is infecting at the same time -- it could one from the group, or any number of that group). These viruses aren't your normal ones. We don't know a whole lot more than what I've shared above. It's just not something investigated heavily. After all, these viruses usually doesn't cause any mortality among the group of fishes it infects and it goes easily into regression.

The incubation of the virus can be days to months! So it would appear that it is not contagious to some observers. It also requires the fish be under certain stresses. So not seeing this in a grouping of fishes in an aquarium would be the anecdotal information others would use to claim it isn't contagious. This is one of the problems of relying upon anecdotal information. However, (this is important) in aquariums that contain a fish displaying Lymph, they have found these ('living') viruses in the water. Lastly, the means of transmission has been identified scientifically. It's contagious. So why not isolate all fish with this condition? Because most likely the other fish have been infected with it by the time you see the nodules on the one fish OR they won't get infected because they do not have abrasions, OR they don't display because they aren't stressed.

Latent forms of this virus are considered present in many kinds of fishes, both wild and cultured. That is, the virus is just waiting to become active (also noted in the above). After a fish is infected, displays, then the display goes away, some fish seem to have a temporary immunity to the virus. Others will display the nodules again when stressed.

To quarantine or not? The 'higher road' is to isolate the fish. But with the latency rate considered to be on the high side, the long incubation period, the causes that bring it forth being stress, and the usual fact that it doesn't cause death, I believe the other fishes won't display this if the hobbyist takes actions to reduce the stress and improve nutrition for all the fish in the system. So, I don't recommend or insist the hobbyist to put the displaying fish into a quarantine tank. There are exceptions to this which I've noted above under 1). Sometimes isolation is in the best interest of the fish. If the hobbyist wants to be conservative, then putting the fish into quarantine is fine -- no harm done. Just remember that a sick fish can sometimes be picked on by those fish that are healthy, so the hobbyist must diligently watch to be sure the displaying fish is not being mistreated in a community of fishes. If the hobbyist is unsure about detecting this, can't, won't or unable to do this, then proceed to put the fish in quarantine.

The real risk of this infection is that it may lead to secondary infections. The fish is displaying that it is stressed. It may be or recently has been injured. This just 'begs' the opportunistic and obligate parasites to come on in and take up residence.

Hope this helps!

[schabiazabi]

A very informative and positive post. This is the best information on Lymphocystis I have read so far, with one interesting thing:

The virus can transfer to other, uninfected fishes.

- you realize this is the exact opposite what is "out there" on the internet?

Did you ever consider putting a book out on Fish Disease Treatment?

[leebca]

Well, I wouldn't want to be controversial, but just how does a fish get a virus if it isn't from another fish? I know. Not very scientific. So let's be/get scientific.

Lymph is not one parasite. It is most likely a group of parasites. (I don't mean that the whole group is infecting at the same time -- it could one from the group, or any number of that group). These parasites aren't your normal ones. By this I mean these are of a 'higher order.' Again, I mean they aren't what most people are taught in high school about viruses.

The incubation of the virus can be days to months! So it would appear that it is not 'catching' to some observers. It also requires the fish be under certain stresses, as noted in the above post. So not seeing this in a grouping of fishes in an aquarium would be the anecdotal information other 'experts' would use to claim it isn't contagious.

However, (this is important) in aquariums that contain a fish displaying Lymph, they have found these ('living') viruses in the water. Duh! It's contagious.

Latent forms of this virus are considered present in many kinds of fishes. That is, just waiting to appear (also noted in the above post).

The 'higher road' is to isolate the fish. But with the latency rate considered to be on the high side, and the causes that bring it forth being stress, and the usual fact that it doesn't cause death, I believe the other fishes won't display this if the hobbyist takes actions to reduce the stress and improve nutrition in the system. So, I don't recommend or insist upon isolation. I would make an exception to this, IF the display was considerable and debilitating to the fish (e.g., making it hard to eat or obtain food).

The real risk of this infection is that it may lead to secondary infections. The fish is displaying that it is stressed. This just 'begs' the opportunistic and obligate parasites to come on in and take up residence.

I prefer this medium to books and articles. I can go back and add information as it becomes available, to my posts. Can't do that with a book. Besides this, I try to make this information free and available to all those who care for their fish as much as I care for marine fishes in general.

I will add to the above post, for instance, some of this info I just shared.

[schabiazabi]

Few follow up questions:

1. Is this a pure aquarium virus, or it exists in the ocean?
2. If it is a virus how come there are no medications for it? (here I'm assuming since there are no mortalities there is no business).
3. How does the curing occur? The spots fall off, or they gradually disappear?
4. Why do the spots appear on fins only? What is so special there?

[leebca]

As a reply:

1. Interesting question. I believe it was Lawler et al., 1977 that found the disease in cultured AND wild marine fishes. Maybe I didn't explain it properly above. Many fish have this in their systems. It is latent. When the fish with the latent viruses are captured, handled, exported, imported, sold and find their way to the LFS and hobbyist is when it will display. It will also display on fishes kept in a poorly maintained tank or on a fish in which the (latent infected) fish are not being cared for properly (nutrition, maintenance, environment, etc.).

2. You are aware that there are no common cures for human viral cold, right? Cures for viral infections are very rare. Add to this, we are talking about fish, the fact that fatalities are rare, and a lack of interest.

3. The viruses are considered to be of the 'self limiting' type. It is a 'good' parasite that knows not to kill its host. If it kills its host, it can't reproduce. In this case, the viruses are thought to regress. It is also believed, (but not well studied or verified) that some fishes that were infected develop a short-term immunity to the virus(es). Yet in other once-infected and displayed fishes after recovery, again when stressed, will often recrudesce.

4. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that just because you see the nodules on fins that that is where they are. We see the nodules on the fins of the fish because that is most likely were the virus first took hold. But if the body of the fish is checked under the microscope, the dermal cells on the body will also show infection. Observers tend to think the virus is where they can see it, but if you step back and try to see a bigger picture, it is a kind of silly perspective. (Like coming to the conclusion that a human cold virus must only be in the nose, since that area is showing symtoms). Now that we've covered this, I can reply to your question. . .Transmission of this virus is considered to be through an abrasion or break in the initial defenses. In the case of the fish, this would be a rip or tear of tissue, a break in the skin, or at least the loss of the mucous coating. You may be guessing now where this is going. . .This kind of abrasion is common in the fins of captured/handled/netted fishes. Thus, we see the greatest display of these nodules at the sites where the virus first took hold. Now you can see (I hope) that this same kind of abrasion can occur at the mouth of the fish (being hurt by something it tried to eat, or by biting something that stung it).

You probably now know more about these viruses than 99.9999% of the human population! ;)

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

This is an excellent discussion on a condition I, myself had questions about in the past. I feel smarter already. Thank you for the write up and great follow up questions/ answers.

[schabiazabi]

You probably now know more about these viruses than 99.9999% of the human population!

heheh, I hope so. On a serious note, the more I learn and read the better my fish seem to be.

This is an excellent discussion on a condition I, myself had questions about in the past. I feel smarter already. Thank you for the write up and great follow up questions/ answers.

- yes, this thread cleared the confusion.