Fin Rot :(

[panda2]

So i just started a small (20gal) saltwater tank. I have live rock and one Three Striped Damselfish. It seemed that in transport it suffered damage to its tail and an abrasion to the side of its body. I called a local store that specializes in saltwater and was told those things would most likely heal on their own. However shortly after i noticed he had ich and started treating the tank with reef safe medication. I did not do it correctly (left carbon filter in) so had to purchase more medication to continue correctly treating the fish. In the mean time, the abrasion to his side has healed but his side fins, all of the sudden, have all most completely rotted off! He is still eating well but is not swimming around as much.(I would assume this is difficult with practically no side fins!) I would like suggestions about using Maracyn Two or some other treatment. I also do not have a separate quarantine tank set up. The water quality has remained good, my biggest problem is with a lot of fluctuation in salinity. (suggestion?) We have grown quite attached to our little fish and i would hate for him to die, but at this point I'm spending much more on saving him then i did on buying him. I would like to get some SOLID advice on what to do to save him without ruining my live rock, and eventually be able to add more fish. I'm finding good advice hard to come by. It can be very confusing and frustrating. I saw an answer LEE gave someone else that gave me hope i will get the info i need here. THANKS! ~amanda and Bob the fish lol

[panda2]

It's me again. So i have had a productive afternoon. I did some reading on this site and found some helpful info. I did go out to get everything i needed for a QT and now have it set up and running. I used the water from the display tank to fill the QT and added more fresh treated water to display tank. SO... were do i go from here as it seems that the fish has both Ich and some sort of bacterial infection? I also want to make sure that the display tank is healthy before putting the fish back after his treatment. From what i have read it sounds like all of this will require at least 6-8wks. Although patients is not one of my virtues, starting a saltwater aquarium is definitely helping me develop this quality! lol I'm willing to wait but i would like to do this right so i don't prolong the process. Thanks to whoever can help!

[panda2]

My fish is really not looking good, I'm afraid he won't make it much longer. He didn't eat any tonight, he is having a hard time swimming, he looks pale and now his respirations are elevated. I'm so upset. I hate that one of these beautiful creatures may die on my watch. I'm still looking for any help you all can give.

[Reefing Madness]

I feel for ya there. I have read and understand your issue, but have never dealt with Fin Rot before. The only thing I can tell you is, if he's having this hard of a time now, then its past the help stage.. If caught in a timely manner there are medications that can be givin.

Maracyn and Maracyn 2
Maracyn

[leebca]

Don't know why, but I didn't see these posts yesterday. . .Anyway. . .Fin rot is usually a sign that the fish is either very weak or the bacteria count in the tank is very high or any combo of these. More often than not, the issue is in fact water quality or diet or a combo. The control of water quality in a small tank is not easy. If you are having fluctuations in salinity then it is a sign that water quality is changing. Even a good water quality that changes is not generally a good environment for a marine fish, which is use to stability in its environment. So, there are many causes to consider, and you have not provided much information with regards to actual water chemistry and system information.

In the QT the fish should be treatment with Cupramine AND Maracyn Two (for freshwater or saltwater fishes). These two can be used together. Although the fish may be cured of Marine Ich and its fins may re-grow, you are still left with the problem of the cause of the fin rot.

From your description, it may be too late to help this fish, sorry to say. If you are quick, have access to the above two meds and apply them, it may work out.

[panda2]

Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I'm extremely depressed to say that our little fish did not survive the night. I feel like he may have already been sick when i got him (3wks ago) since he already had some signs and symptoms when i brought him home, but that's not making me feel any better. I did read a book (very basic- i have now decided) prior to starting the tank and talked to the ppl and the LFS (not real great info!). I really want to get things right prior to having any other fish~ i can't believe how upset i am over loosing my fish. I have been doing a LOT of reading in the past 24 hrs. but still feel like a need a TON of help. So to start with since the fish was in the OT for a couple hrs. i am following your cleaning advice for OT clean up with disease. So when i set it up again, should i use the power filter, with chemical filter placed inside so just the sponge filter as you suggested? I'm also confused on how best to seed it. Do i also need an airstone in addition to sponge filter? Once it is set up again, how long should i run it before it is ready to quarantine a new fish?
Now with the display tank~ what to do? It is 30inx12inx12, i have a penguin power filter with bio wheel (a model that is for a tank a little lager than what i have-a good thing im told...), the LFS sold me purigen since i do not have a skimmer and seagel to keep phos down, a 100w heater, thermometer, a continuous ammonia alert sensor, and LED light and a florescent light with a coral life bulb in it, the substrate is caribsea aragonite sand 3/4in deep i also have artificial decorations and stones and an airstone strip to add circulation and oxygenation. I treated tap water with aquasafe (maybe not so safe huh?) and used instant ocean salt. Everything was set up and running for several days and water was good..... Then from the LFS i came home with turbo start, 4 1/2 lbs of beautiful live rock (not as pretty anymore) and 2 1/2 lbs base rock which is now growing green algae. All of that went in to tank. Shortly after i started treatment as mentioned above. I tested water very other day for ph,no2-no3 and used the hydrometer. Once i had to adjust ph as it had droped, and twice ,y ammonia monitor went from safe to alert so i did 20% water change and it went back to safe both times. My biggest issue as mentioned was a lot of fluctuation in my hydrometer reading. The food i was sold i have learned was probably not excactly what he needed. What a shock. It is by San Francisco Bay Brand, frozen marine cuisine for Carnivores (and he was and omnivore). It did have whole pieces and just pieces present when thawed.
Since the fish left the DT, i did a 20% water change and returned the carbon filter. I read in one of your posts that leaving it fishless will eventually rid the tank of any ich as it will not have a host. But what about whatever bacteria that was introduced or contracted by the fish? I rinsed all artificial decorations prior to putting in DT but not according to your recommendations. Should i remove them and clean and soak them and then return to DT? I have a good bit of brown algae growing on substrate and now some green algae noted to base rock and glass wall. Where should i go from here to make sure the DT is very healthy and ready for the next step, clean up crew i think?. I wish i would have read about the "secret cycle" prior to adding a fish with the live rock (again LFS said it was ok...)
I hope this is enough info for you to advise me on the next steps.

[leebca]

The simple, inexpensive QT is both good for you (and your wallet) and the fish. Use the inexpensive but easy to handle sponge filter. Follow the guidelines in the post on how to quarantine: A Fish Quarantine Process

I try, in the above post, to explain why to use what is recommended. Can't and won't recommend anything 'powered.' I have some suggestions. Not meant to be rude or insistent, but you have sort of already discovered a good path to follow. . .

You seem to have been 'sold' an expensive, small aquarium. Unfortunately, I'd say the advice you've been given is not in your best interest. You are right to do the reading. Just go slowly and keep reading. Your best defense from being led astray is to be self-educated. Get good advice: Bio - Lee (a.k.a. leebca)

Go through this post and see what you need/should have as a minimum, and compare it to what you have. Gather what you are missing. Also, use it to start up your current DT again: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium

If you want to setup the QT and seed the biological filter in it, you've got to feed it. Put in some fish food and let is rot. Not very much is needed. It should take 2 to 8 weeks to seed. Check the ammonia and nitrite levels after the first 2 weeks have passed and then check it every few days thereafter until you get zero readings for both for three or more consecutive readings. Remove rotting foods, but you still need to add some in to feed the bacteria in the sponge filter.

I know what I am about to suggest goes against what you've been advised. Only you can decide the way forward. However, in my opinion:
1) Stop using the Purigen;
2) Stop using the chemical for phosphate control;
3) Your filter is okay -- I think -- I'd rather know the exact model number
4) Obtain a good quality (phosphate-free) activated carbon and use it in your filter (after washing it off);
5) Probably don't need the airstone if the filter is over-sized -- not sure about this;
6) A properly balanced (chemically) salt water does not require pH adjustment. I think you'll benefit by reading through this post: What is Water Quality;
7) Since you have such a small system, attempt to control 'balance' through water changes, proper maintenance, and filtration. But you should start checking the chemistries yourself;
8) Use test kits, not test strips or those 'indicators';
9) The tank (DT and QT) isn't ready for fish until you get consecutive zero readings for ammonia and nitrites;
10) Put in some snails (to the DT) and feed them and your live rock (see above link to starting a FOWLR and follow it through);
11) You mention 'hydrometer' a few times. Just what kind are you using? Are you sure it isn't the instrument that is fluctuating? Unfortunately a much more reliable instrument costs $40 or less, but it is your choice. In this hobby, it is generally better to use the better equipment for testing the water, even if you have a small aquarium. Look on the Internet/web for a refractometer that is used to measure salt in water and see what you can find;
12) What kind of source water are you using?
13) Don't remove anything inside your DT right now. If it was contaminated at the start, it is in the system. Continue to perform water changes;
14) Leave the DT fishless for 8 weeks;
15) Regarding the bacteria, give the system time to age; fix the maintenance; fix the filtration; get used to holding things steady; and
16) Regarding the brown 'algae.' Not really algae. They are diatoms which are usual for new aquariums. Old ones still have some of this, but not much. You want to keep snails that eat it and, although they won't remove the big quantity there now, they will keep it in check in an old aquarium. Much has to do with feeding the diatoms. If you keep dissolved silica away/out of the water, and reduce organics, the diatoms should become manageable. But, this depends in part on the quality of your source water (number 12).

I think the above should start you on the better path. Just get back to the basics and especially stick closely to the info in the post on starting up a FOWLR system.

Once you get into it further and time passes, post if you have additional questions. But in general, you'll find your answers in the stickies and in reading other people's posts and threads. Good luck!