New member with an Ich problem

[Simon]

Just wanted to say Hi.
I have a problem with Ich in my reef tank and have been reading this forum for tips and advice. I don't feel the need to actually ask too many more questions on this at the moment as nearly all my questions have been answered by previous posts.
So thanks all for posting this information it has helped me hugely.
It seems the only way I am going to cure this problem is to put all my fish in a QT for 8 weeks, to this end I am just off to buy a new aquarium, and will be using my 55 gallon DT as a QT once all the live rock, inverts and corals are transferred.
I think this is going to take some time, my one question is this: How long do you think it will take to cycle the new aquarium if I take one of the filters off my 55 gallon tank. (A Fluval 205). Could I also add some of my LR to the new aquarium to help it cycle faster, or will this damage the life on the rock?, I will definitely transfer some of the substrate and water to kick start it.
Forgot to mention the new aquarium is 88 gallons.
Anyway my plan is to cycle the new aquarium, add the rocks, inverts and corals to it, add some fake rocks to the old aquarium. Treat the fish for 8 weeks while I wait for any ich to die in the new aquarium, then transfer the fish.
A long process I know, but I can't think of a better way at the moment. It does mean that my fish have to put up with Ich while the new tank cycles, I do have a small QT, but it's only 7 gallons, nowhere near big enough for all my fish. I think this is probably the best way to do this, but any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks for all the information I have already read here.
Simon

[Reefing Madness]

If you use Rock and substrate from you rexsisting tank, your cycling time should be around a week, thats just being on the safe side. The way you are going about should get the job done in short order.

[Simon]

Thanks for the prompt response, if it only takes a week that would be some good news amongst the bad. At the moment I am cycling my fish through the QT to give them a breather, except the goby which I just can't catch. Anyway I ordered the tank today, went for a 106 gallon tank in the end. Should be delivered by the end of the week, missus not pleased with the money spent.
Here is my sad and sorry tale.
In 4 years of keeping marine fish, I had never lost a single specimen. My undoing came when bought a pair of Yellow headed blue cheeked gobies which proceeded to drop coral sand all over my lower lying corals, no problem I thought, I just need to move the corals up in the water, so I ordered some live rock from the internet. It arrived looking good, nice and clean, nothing dying on it, so I put it in newly made up seawater for a week, checked the ammonia and nitrites and all was good, or so I thought. So I put it in the DT. Within days most of my fish were looking sick!
To cut to the chase, I lost one of the gobies, a dottyback and a clown in quick succession. But the hardest part was that the remaining goby dug a burrow and laid eggs the day after the male goby died. Hearbreaking to see.
I just didn't even think that the rock would be carrying a disease, how stupid of me!!!
I know my solution may sound extreme, but having read this forum I believe it is the only way to cure this problem, because I really don't want to lose any more fish.
Current tank is: 1 black and white clown (it's partner died), 1 blue cheeked goby (it's partner died). 1 coral beauty, 1 rose bubble tipped anemone, loads of assorted soft corals, 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 fire shrimp, 6 hermit carbs, 1 sea star and a couple of turbo snails.
I will keep you updated of how this progresses, I worry that the remaining goby won't make it, as I just can't catch her to treat her.

[leebca]

Simon,

It seems like you're going through a lot of effort. Move the fish to a bare quarantine tank with sponge filters running. Handle the ammonia with chemicial filters and water changes, until the new filters become biologicially active. Leave all the rocks, substrate, and inverts in the old tank and keep it running with its current filters and equipment until the Marine Ich dies.

Just follow the guidellines in the sticky post Curing Fish of Marine Ich. It's more important to get the curing started immediately then trying to make up things to delay the treatment for the biological filter. In the QT you can put the filter floss or filtration that is in the current, infected DT and help get things going, but skip the rock and other things. Make certain you still have filtration going in the as it was in the DT.

You want the origina/main DT to essentially keep going/running as it was without changing it.

[Simon]

Hi Lee,
Thanks for your response, my problem is that my QT is way too small for my fish, it has been used for new (small) fish to be introduced to my aquarium, I think that putting them all in a 7 gallon tank will make them really stressed. I looked at the possibility of getting a larger QT, but the costs of doing that were really quite high with filtration, lights, heating etc, and I had been thinking of getting a larger tank anyway. The other thing is that I just can't catch that darn goby, she is off like a shot into one of her burrows the second the net goes into the tank, the only way I will catch her is to dismantle the whole reef. So I just thought that the best way to do this was to start my new tank which was planned anyway for later in the year (and has now been ordered).
Do you think the 7 gallon tank can support the fish? if you think it can, I will get them all in it, well the ones I can catch, I could in theory change the water every day as my RO can create about 20 gallons a day (in theory about 100, but my water pressure is too low).
If this is feasible, I can do a 50% (or more) water change every day. I am not sure what chemical removal of Ammonia and Nitrites will do to the treatment of the fish, would it make the treatment less effective, or react with the copper?
I do have 2 filters on the main DT, one runs slowly as it goes through a UV filter so it is really restricted. They are Fluval 205s. I'm thinking I can take one of these, and use it in the QT, which would probably be more than enough, except that maybe the copper will kill the bacteria.
Anyway, if you think the 7 gallon tank can handle it with water changes and ammonia removal products I am more than ready to give it a go.
I await your advice.
Thanks

[leebca]

Thanks Simon. I didn't quite understand your situation. The 7 gallon won't likely work as a QT but compared to what you're doing, the best way would still be to catch all fish and treat them outside the tank. Once they are out, then you proceed to establish your new aquarium. I mean, if you're going to setup a new aquarium, aren't you going to have to catch that Goby eventually?

Since you mentioned using copper, you want a bare tank for this -- no substrate, no rock, just plastic or resin decorations or pipes so the fish can hide. If the fish do in fact have Marine Ich, you don't want to wait too long before starting the treatment.

Regarding catching fish -- it's just that you (and I) don't have to do it very often. That's why we are not great/successful at this People who do this for a living have no to few problems catching fish. Read through the thread here on "Goin' Fishin'" for ideas on catching fish. Most hobbyists are smarter than their fish -- most.

Let's say you add up the inches of fish you have and, for every inch of fish, you need 5 gallons. What you absolutely need is a tank, heater, and sponge filters (filter, tubing, and air pump). You can set it anywhere (even on the floor if you must). Lighting can be just room ligihting. In fact, while being treated, low lighting is best. You can get away with one incandescent lamp nearby if you want. Obviously I don't know about the UK retailers, but in the USA I can go to a large store with a pet section and get a 'kit' of these essentials for a 29 gallon tank for under US $50. If you really want to be less, you can find a used tank and just get the other bits new. What I don't know and can't find in your posts, is the total length of fish you now have. The thing is, they also don't all have to be in the same tank for treatment. Ok if they are; just don't have to be. So multiple tanks is okay.

After the treatment, you either have a quarantine/treatment tank to use, a refugium for your system, another aquarium, or you can sell it. It will make a good graduation gift or, if you hold onto it a while, a good Christmas gift if you don't want to sell it.

In the States we have chemical treatment filters and chemicals that will absorb ammonia and make it easier to control a new system. Can't speak about the UK again, sorry. These chemicals and filters are safe to use if you are treating with some types of copper or hyposalinity. You'll have to read the packaging or contact the maker for guidance on that question. I know the ones here in the USA, only.

I've been to the UK and European destinations quite often and find the Germans probably have the greatest variety of marine equipment and supplies of all. I'm in Argentina right now but will be in Berlin in a couple of months. Check out the Internet for some of the things you need.

The source water will be a challenge. You will need extra water or extra salt water, whichever you can get. Maybe a large LFS will provide you some of their freshly made saltwater? In the mean time, get containers and keep collecting your source water as fast as the system will make it.

If you are using a chelated or chemically bound copper medication, the bacteria will likely go into a bit of shock. They will recover whenever Nature lets them. Some bacteria don't do this at all. Luck of the draw. Surprisingly, what affects them more than just the copper is the change -- change in location, change in water quality, change in water chemistries, change in routine. You don't need (or want) the whole filter -- just the filter floss or material that has bacteria on it. Read through the sticky post here on setting up a QT and you'll find the reasons why a sponge filter works so well (and it is so inexpensive, too).

The only thing I'm trying to point out is: You have alternatives. As many options as I have heard about either being planned or done, the usual one that most favors the fish is the move to a treatment tank and treating.

I appreciate your past success with aquariums. I think you are a fine hobbyist. Gald you're in the hobby!

[Simon]

Hi Lee,
Many thanks for your help in this. I have now bought another QT after a phone call from my wife while I was at work to tell me the fish weren't looking too good. (This just made me worry about the fish, and couldn't concentrate at work). I figure that it doesn't matter that I take the reef apart to catch the goby as I will be re-assembling it soon in the new DT. I also ordered another RO unit (next day delivery). I have 50 gallons made up and ready to go and with 2 RO units running can make 40 gallons a day which will mean I can do big water changes daily which I don't think will stress the fish too much because they will just be getting more of the same water. This is just a stop gap solution for 2 weeks until the new DT is cycled and I can put the corals and inverts in it, then move the fish back to the old DT. (I will be cycling the new DT with most of the substate, LR and one of the filters from the old DT, plus a new filter into which I will put some of the media from the old filter). I will be leaving one of the filters on the old DT running (minus the UV) which should be more than enough to cope and with 40 gallons a day of reserve water, should I get a spike in ammonia or nitrites I can cure it promptly. I am now feeling much better about this whole thing, it has been a pleasure for my wife and I to sit down in front of the DT and watch the fish under the moonlight light in the evening before going to bed, but recently it has been more of a distressing thing. I guess you live and learn, quarantine everything, maybe I have been lucky in the past with not quarantining corals and LR, but it sure is a hard lesson to learn.
I will keep you updated on progress.
Regards
Simon