Lots of questions on new set up

[kinoman]

OK. So I decided to build a FOWLR and possibly upgrade the system later on by adding some corals, etc. My space is limited and I decided to buy a 29 gallon tank (30"x13"x20"). The tank will be in my bedroom and I read that marine aquarium may be a little loud. But is it a big factor in case of relatively small aquarium as mine? Now another question about the light. I found this light Aquasun T5 HO with Actinic bulbs. What do you think about this set up. It is relatively cheap and I think may be used for reef tanks. Now the filter. I found this: Tom Aquatics rapids Mini Canister Filter C-80. It is only $29. Is it any good? And how loud it is since it is attached to the side of the filter. And also this: Penn Plax Cascade Canister filter 700.
Could you recommend anything that would suit my needs. My tank will be pretty small compared to the aquarium that most of the guys on this forum have so my equipment should be relatively smaller and cheaper. Maybe I am wrong but I am a beginner. I had a fresh water aquarium for several years but this is a completely new stuff for me.
thanks for any advice.

[paul wh]

i have only just set up my first reef tank the most important think i can say is be patient and ask these guy loads of questions with out them i would have really struggled
my tank is a little larger than your but i have no external filter i was told they are more troulble than they are worth
all i have is 35kg of live rock and a good protein skimmer oh and a r/o water filter which has prob saved me loads of trouble
but like i say read as much on here as poss and ask stacks of questions
cheers paul

[Reefing Madness]

Ok, here we go.
The only thing that will be somewhat noisy on your system will be the skimmer, and not all that bad either I might add. You do not need a filter, it will cause you a headache with Nitrates in the future, so its advisable not to use one. You will need at least 30lbs of Live Rock, importance, this is your biological filter. You will need a skimmer rated at twice your water volume, you will need a couple of powerheads, rated at 10x your water volume. The light you chose should wrok just fine for your system, right now, FOWLR. You will need to ditch the Actinics when you go Reef because using just one white light in the tank would not be enough light for alot of corals. When you switch over to somewhat of a Reef, with corals, you will need to boost your powerhead output to at least 20x your water volume. You'll need a Refractometer to test your Salinity, (1.025), Temps to range from 78-81.
If needed:

Dry Rock, there are a few hitchhickers onLive Rock that people want to stay away from, so they opt for using Dry Rock, or Dead Rock. Macro Rock is a good place to start looking for that. Either way oyu go you will need a minimum of 1lb per gallon.

Replacement filter media like filter floss and activated carbon (if you get a filter)

Multiple Powerheads (2 or 3) 10x your water volume for just a Fish Only With Live Rock, and at least 20x your water volume for a Reef Tank. So lets say your going reef, and you have a 100g tank, you would need flow in that tank at minimum of 2000gph, or 2 1000gph powerheads.

Protein Skimmer, rated at 2 times your water volume

Saltwater Test Kits. Reef Test Kit. Tets for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH, Phosphates, Calcium, ALK and Magnesium.

Saltwater fish food. Mysis Shrimp, Squid, Cyclopease, Algae Sheets, Romaine . Flake food is not really a good food to feed your marine fish.

Aquarium vacuum. This one is iffy. Most don't use one, if you have enough flow in the tank you won’t need one

Rubber kitchen gloves

Fish net

Two, clean, never used before, 5-gallon buckets

Aquarium thermometer, digital being the best.

Brush with plastic bristles (old tooth brush) - needed for cleaning the live rock if you don't get Fully Cured Live Rock.

Power Strip, possibly GFCI outlets by the tank.

Optional but definitely recommend getting a Reverse Osmosis or RO/Deionization filter for the make-up water, and a barrel for storing the water.

Possibly a Quarantine Tank for your new fish. They sit in here for a few weeks to kill off parasites and bacteria, to keep it from getting in your main tank

Heater rated for your size tank.

Saltwater Mix. Marine Salt

Saltwater Hydrometer or even better a Refractometer, which is more accurate

Aquarium filter (not absolutely necessary if running with adequate amounts of live rock, but nice to have if you need to use a mechanical filter or activated carbon, etc.)

Aquarium substrate such as live sand or crushed cora. Some go bare Bottom, others choose the 2-3" bottom, others, more advanced will try the Deep Sand Bed, which is over 6" deep.

[dufybug]

you've been given some good advice. the only thing i would like to note is a comment about the noise. when you are hearing that, usually they are commenting about the sound of the sump. unless you are going to use one, the other stuff isnt any louder than what you are used to with a freshwater tank. even as far as sump set ups, there are ways of making it quieter. they have come a long way in that area.

[kinoman]

Thanks. The thing I am confused about is the skimmer and the filter. I was reading a lot about those devices and most of the time people say that the skimmer is optional not the filter but I trust your expertise. So could you please recommend a brand or a model of the skimmer I would need for 30gal tank? Also, is it OK not to use the filter, just the skimmer if I go with the dead rock? And another question, how about adding some corals later on if I have a dead rock, not the live rock.
Thanks again.

[dufybug]

used to be, tanks relied on filters to scrub the water, but that is out of date. what is more current is building a base or live rock which contains all the bacteria you need to break down waste. dry rock starts off dry, but once you introduce it to your tank, and seed it with some sort of starter, it grows everything. then it is no longer dry rock, but it is then live rock. the reason most here like dry rock is because you can control what you are seeding it with. when you start with already growing rock, you never know what is on it.

you will need a hang on skimmer, since you arent using a sump. Red Sea makes one called the prizm that i use on my small tank. it is easy to use and has worked well for me. they have them at marine depot. there is another called the remora that i heard works well too. the skimmer removes heavy waste by using a curtain of air. waste clings to the bubbles and rises to a collection cup to be removed.

i still use a filter as well. i believe carbon is important to clarify and polish the water. on my small tank i use an aqua clear box filter with carbon, gfo and filter floss.

[Reefing Madness]

I run a 240g tank. No filter, and no carbon. Running a skimmer rated at 2 times your water volume cleans up your water nicely. you can run the filter if you like, no issues right up front with them, but you need to keep an eye on the Nitrates, as you may run into trouble with it. If you do run the Prizm, run the 75g one, as these skimmers are junk. Reef Octopus, SWC are very good skimmers. And not to pricey for a 60g size.
People use dry or dead rock for a couple different reasons, one would be that they do not want some of the bad hitchhickers that can and do come along with the Live Rock, then again, some of the hitchhickers are very cool. Secondly, they use it because its alot cheaper than Live Rock per pound. Some use both, they will buy a few pounds of Live Rock to seed the majority of Dry Rock. Either way you go, you will be able to run a Reef system in the future.

[kinoman]

What do you think about this skimmer Hydor Koralia Slim-Skim Internal Protein Skimmer - Hydor Skimmers

It says for aquarium up to 35 gallons.
Since my aquarium is pretty small I would prefer not to put skimmer inside as it takes some space. The filter woukld be outside of the tank and it would not take any valuable space in the tank. Does my thinking make any sense?

[Reefing Madness]

None of the Skimmers I mentioned go inside. you have to look for the HOB (hang on back) style. But, you have picked a good skimmer, but not big enough. Rated at twice your water volume. Trust me on this, you will not regret it. This baby is what keeps your water crystal clear and removes all excess nutrients, you do not want to skimp on this. They are rated 2 different ways, the one you see on the box is for a Fish tank skimmer, you will need one that is bigger for a Reef Tank.
Just my 2 cents though.
Hydor Slim Skim Internal Protein Skimmer 65 - Hydor Protein Skimmers

Take a look at this SWC, it shows the Reef or Fish ratings.
Hang On Skimmers

Reef Octopus Hang-on-the-Back Skimmer OCT-BH100 - English

[kinoman]

Thanks a lot for those links. This makes my choices so much easier. I will definitely choose one of them. I will start shopping next week. Any recommendation on the sand? I would like a white sand or whitish. Anything I should know about sands?

[Reefing Madness]

Sand, well the color would be up to you. Thing you gotta watch is the stuff blows around with direct contact from a powerhead. Can get messy, but will settle when you get the powerheads adjusted good.

[dufybug]

i dont run a filter on my 75 either. i find in larger tanks the volume has advantages. on my nano reef though i find it needs help. in my small tank one of the battles is controlling phosphates. i found running the filter allows me to use gfo which seems to control them. as for the prizm, i see they get very mixed reviews. some hate them, others rate them good. i guess i am one of the lucky ones. mine has worked well for me. i like it because it is very easy to adjust and make skim. the main reason i got it was price. marine depot had a sale and i got it for 80.

[kinoman]

So I am getting ready and I decided to start with dead rocks instead of live rocks. The price difference is huge and I am not in rush so I will buy some live sand, dead rocks, skimmer and lights and stat the process. Reading about live and dead rocks is pretty confusing I must say. Is it OK to use the dead rocks (Fiji) only? Do I need anything else to colonize the dead rocks with some living organisms? Maybe just a piece of live rock would help? Although I've read that the dead rock will never become a real live rock even if it sits next to the real live rock.

[Reefing Madness]

So I am getting ready and I decided to start with dead rocks instead of live rocks. The price difference is huge and I am not in rush so I will buy some live sand, dead rocks, skimmer and lights and stat the process. Reading about live and dead rocks is pretty confusing I must say. Is it OK to use the dead rocks (Fiji) only? Do I need anything else to colonize the dead rocks with some living organisms? Maybe just a piece of live rock would help? Although I've read that the dead rock will never become a real live rock even if it sits next to the real live rock.

The Dry Rock will become inhabited with the needed bacteria to keep your tank in order. It will never become Live Rock, there is just way to much difference between the 2, but throw in a piece of Live Rock, and the organisms that are in that rock will take over the tank rock and sand in due time. Your safe using just Dry Rock.

[kinoman]

I've started my shopping and I still of course have some questions. My nano tank is only 29g (already purchased). I need powerheads and from Reefing Madness advise, I would need power heads with 20x water volume. I think about those:
Water Pumps & Wavemakers: Hydor Koralia Evolution

either 550 or 750. I would like to have 2 powerheads to avoid any dead spots in the tank but even 2 x Evolution 550 would give me a total of 1100 gpm water flow which in my case would be 38x water volume. Isn't it too much?
Is there anything else on the market that would suit my needs? I found a lot of power heads but I don't think anything smaller than 500 gpm.
Again, I want to set up the aquarium with the coral in the future so I don't want to change the equipment and increase my total cost. I already decided to buy this lighting:
Reef Aquarium Lighting & LED Lights: Marineland Reef Capable LED Lighting System

which created another question. Do I need the lighting during the cycling. I would prefer to buy the lights a little later to spread out the cost over a longer period but if it is necessary now I would buy it now. What is your opinion?
Thanks guys, you helped me tremendously.

[Reefing Madness]

Water Pumps & Wavemakers: Hydor Koralia Nano 240 & 425
If your worried about to much flow, have you looked at these? But at 38x turnover rate, no, thats not alot. No you don't need lighting during the cycle process, but its best to run the system all set up, your trying to stabilize the system all at the same time.

[kinoman]

My stuff started to arrive. I've ordered 2 Hydor Koralia 425's. The rocks are arriving on Wednesday and my next step will be aquascaping. The tank is small so my options are limited I will try to create at least 1 island for some corals that must be kept seperately and i will try to go as high as possible, maybe about 3-5 inchaes below the water level. Do you think it's a good idea? I don't want to create just a pile of rocks in the middle of the tank.

[Reefing Madness]

Sounds like a plan. But you want the rock to be below the level of your water changes, you don't want to expose the rock to air when changing water.

[kinoman]

Thanks. I didn't know about this. I saw plenty of tanks with the rocks almost to the water level when full.

[Reefing Madness]

Thanks. I didn't know about this. I saw plenty of tanks with the rocks almost to the water level when full.

Yup, they have sumps to handle the water changes.
http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html