Additives

[charlie]

In relation to our February meeting conversation, let's find out what everybody is using for additions.

I will go ahead and start:

Alkalinity: Sodium Carbonate from BRS
Following what Devon said in the February meeting thread, I am also having a problem keeping the alk where I want it to be, which would be a little over 3 meq/l. I am seriously thinking of going back to the 6:1 baking soda/washing soda mix. I have been dosing 100ml. (liquid) daily to get this level back to "my " level.

Calcium: Calcium Chloride from BRS
I have always used calcium chloride to supplement my calcium levels. I also drip kalkwasser 24/7, and in this particular instance, my calcium level has not dropped below 420 for the last 3 months. I usually add about a cup of liquid CaCl about 2 times a week

Magnesium: The 2 part add from BRS
It has always been been this or Tech M. My magnesium levels are usually over 1300. Right now I am only adding a cup to a cup and a half once a week.

This is about it for the additions to my tank. I hope everybody else can chip in here, that way it may make it easier for our discussion on the 27th at Kim's house.

[Parrothead]

I wish I could be there for this one, I hope someone takes and post good notes, thanks in advance

[kamar]

I wish I could be there for this one

Aaahh . . . Florida. You should hop on a plane, but I think our weather right now would make you seriously reconsider as I'm thinking Florida sounds really nice right about now. I've had it with the wet fog day after day. Anyway, on to the additives.

I use the two-part kit from BRS that raises pH, which is sodium carbonate, calcium chloride and the magnesium chloride / sulfate mix. Before my corals started growing from basically nothing (ie 1" chunk of plating coral to start), and before the coralline algae really kicked in, I wasn't dosing much at all - maybe 10 ml each per day. Now I'm dosing 60 ml each per day and still can't keep up. I've never tested for Mg (I know - get a test kit already), I just add the magnesium in loose proportion to how much two-part I've dosed and it seems to work just fine. I would like to know what the magnesium level is, so I will be ordering a test kit.

When either the calcium or alkalinity gets too low, I do a correction with Seachem Reef Builder and Reef Advantage Calcium. The alkalinity seems to stay right at or just above 3 meq/L, and I like to keep the calcium above 400, which has been difficult using just the two-part. I feel like I'm dumping in quite a lot of additives, so I'm considering switching over to just using the Seachem products since they seem to be more concentrated.

I also dose 7ml of Seachem Iodide 1x per week and test for it (have a shrimp), and I dose Seachem Reef Plus with the skimmer turned off for awhile. My skimmer is probably oversized for my tank, so I want to make sure I'm not removing too many trace elements.

And that's it. I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone else uses, and may even make some adjustments after our discussion.

Kim

[Parrothead]

Aaahh . . . Florida. You should hop on a plane, but I think our weather right now would make you seriously reconsider as I'm thinking Florida sounds really nice right about now. I've had it with the wet fog day after day. Anyway, on to the additives.
Kim

Kim,

I was born and raised in Michigan, Sick as it sounds I actually miss winter
Florida ain't been all that great this year for Florida

[DevonM]

I use Reef Crystals salt with my 5% water changes twice a week.

I also use the BulkReefSupply.com (BRS) two part dosing program (Recipe 1) for around 400 gallons of water. I've been adding around 100 ml of Calcium and Alkalinity solution daily. I've found that my ALK levels are getting a bit high and I believe it's pushing my CA levels down. I also follow the directions for BRS' Magnesium dosing, 20 oz. of solution for every one gallon of CA & ALK solution used. I'd say that it takes me around a month to get through a gallon of solution so I'm only adding Magnesium every month or so.

Right now I'm going to stop dosing Alk until my levels drop down around the 8-11 dKH range (13 now: ~ 4.7 meq/) and keep dosing Ca until my levels get back in the 400 range (350 now).

I'm interested in the process of dripping KALK. At the moment I buffer my top off water with Seachem Reef Buffer but my top off container is a 90 gallon tank with a float so it's inconsistent. I hope to discuss this at the meeting.

I'm also having a little trouble raising my pH without increasing my Alk. So I would also like to touch bases on the use of washing soda at the meeting.

[charlie]

Sounds good Devon, thanx for posting this stuff!!! I hope that Kim has wireless, I will bring the laptop down so we have something to go off of when we start the discussion.

[lostcreekreefer]

Hi all-

I have been watching the thread develop, so here's my $0.02 worth.

I am also using Reef Crystals salt mix for my water changes. I am changing 50 gallons at a time trying to accomplish that every 14 days; that would be about 12 - 13% at a time (total system volume), about 25% a month.

I have been using TB Aquatics two part kits (Recipe 1), also with 20 oz of the Mg (Magnesium Sulfate stock solution) also added for every gallon of Ca/Alk used. I am dosing about 100cc each of Ca & Alk in my top off water daily, takes a little over a month to go through a gallon of Ca and Alk. I don't have my log here, but my Ca has been at ~400-410, my Alk has been around 2.8 - 3.0 meg/L. Last time I checked my Mg was around 1150.

When I first had the aquarium set up I was kind of listening to Kyle's philosophy (the previous owner of this tank) of just doing top-off & you don't need water changes, much at all. Yes you do, so I am.

My top off needs have slowed a bit as I have lowered the tank temp from the 80 -81 deg range to 77 - 78 deg range consistently; 4-5 gallons daily down to 2-3 gallons daily. The wood stove that heats our house lives in the basement with the tank, so that has been interesting to accomplish, but I have things where I want them and it seems to be stable.

Something we might (or might not) want to add to the mix is discussing impacts of various algae, cyanobacteria or other things living in the tank on pH/Alk/Ca levels (not so much Ca). I have noticed in my brief experience with this aquarium that there will always be something 'extra' growing in the tank. My first thing was hair algae,and then bubble algae came along too, all the while my aptasia population was growing exponentially. snails & crabs got the algae, my Raccoon Butterfly got the aptasia. the goodies in the water are still there, but not measurable by my test kits though...? So then I had Cyanobacteria crop up & ChemiClean was suggested by a couple of folks and it worked extremely well to remove the Cyano & I believe some of the causative organic impurities... now things are balanced with a better homeostasis achieved on a routine basis. I was not doing water changes, then I started to. The interesting thing was I had been doing Kalk drips for Ca supplementation, and was somewhere between 350 -400 and never happy with it. But with all of the greenery growing in the display tank, I was experiencing large pH swings daily (0.4 to 0.5 units low to high in the course of a day) and the Kalk made the pH swings worse, so I switched to using washing soda, which did the same thing to the pH, then I switched to the 2 part solutions which gave basically the same result. My point (yes there is one) is that now my pH & Alk are much more stable with out the extra greenery growing in the water & adding it's metabolic contribution to the whole thing. My daily pH swing now is only 0.2 - 0.23 units and my pH now averages 8.3 (yes it is calibrated Charlie ) and the Alk is more stable. Has anybody else noticed these sorts of impacts on your management of water parameters?

On a totally different subject, does any body know what ChemiClean does in the aquarium? I mean chemically what does it do? I have emailed Boyd Enterprises twice (even put Dr. in front of my name the second time) an gotten zippo for a response. I like it, I just wanna know...also, related to ChemiClean, I had to really change my protein skimming immediately after using it, as the skimmer went nuts (which is as advertised). I have an ATI Bubblemaster 250, it has 2 pumps, I could only use one of them for 3 days then got both going again. So I have been skimming 'wet' since then, about 1/2 gallon total off a week with cleaning the collection cup every 2 -3 days. My other question is does anybody know if there is a concentrating of salt in the skimmate, just like there is a concentrating of the organic wastes? I have noticed my specific gravity seems to be affected (decreasing with time) by the wet skimming...is salt being removed (with the organics)?

That's all for now.

[charlie]

Kevin, you know darn well that we will probably solve the national debt at the meeting, besides getting our little discussion taken care of. here is an article I found about skimmate:

Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine - Feature Article: Elemental Analysis of Skimmate: What Does a Protein Skimmer Actually Remove from Aquarium Water?

Read away my friend

[charlie]

You may be the one that has to translate that article for me, so read closely.

[lostcreekreefer]

... here is an article I found about skimmate:
Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine - Feature Article: Elemental Analysis of Skimmate: What Does a Protein Skimmer Actually Remove from Aquarium Water?

That is too cool....whoda thunk somebody had done the work? Thanks muchly.

[charlie]

Like I said, when I see you on the 27th, you can translate it for me!!!!

[lostcreekreefer]

My other question is does anybody know if there is a concentrating of salt in the skimmate, just like there is a concentrating of the organic wastes?

No. per the article that Charlie referenced. the salt concentration in skimmate is a little less than that of natural sea water. interestingly the author attributes only 29% of the skimmate to TOC, the rest is speculation but his belief is the source is mostly from microbes like diatoms & other planktonic microbes and their gut contents....

solved THAT one!

[charlie]

Thought that article may help you out a bit

[lostcreekreefer]

Thought that article may help you out a bit

It is very cool when somebody with interest, ability and access to equipment looks at something as mundane as skimmate. at least I think so....

[charlie]

From what I understood of it, it was a great article. I know I want to discuss it a little more.

[Parrothead]

this is gonna be an awesome meeting, is there an airport near by, just in case my numbers come in

[charlie]

Probably happen when pigs fly.

[kamar]

I hope that Kim has wireles

I do, Charlie so bring your laptop. Yup, this should be a great discussion and I'm really looking forward to having everyone over.

Parrothead - I hear you on the snow. I would really miss it too, and the changing of the seasons. I'm not a fan of large, scary bugs either. It's kind of nice to get rid of a few every winter.

[Parrothead]

Probably happen when pigs fly.

Just checked my numbers, drawing was last night, pigs are still grounded

[DevonM]

Well I learned from our meeting this Saturday that I should be adding more Calcium and Magnesium to my tank. I was under the impression that adding the two part BRS (equal ml of Ca. and Alk.) solutions to my tank would maintain adequate levels of Ca. and Alk. for my critters. I was wrong, turns out that for my particular tank I need to add about 40-50 ml of Alkalinity solution and 100+ ml of Calcium solution to my tank nightly to maintain my desired levels (400 Ca & 8 kH/2.86 meq/L). I am going to boost my Ca levels back to around 400 ppm with Calcium Chloride and start dripping Kalk. I also found out that I need to add more Mag. solution than I currently am.