My tank crashed. What happened?

**Minh Nguyen** · 06-16-2003, 11:55 PM

My beautiful 4 year old tank went down in flame on Sunday 6/8/2003. The whole tank died except 5 Ocellaris clowns, three Clown Gobies, my large 22 inches T. gigas, and a few LPS. Gone are about 35+ fishes, 19 clams, M. magnifica (two clones), my beautiful Rose anemone, and two other anemones, all my SPS and a few of my LPS. Also gone are two Bristle worms that are three feet long and thousands of other tank life. The tank was a total lost. My surviving lives went to friend tanks or LFS.

What happened was very simple but I there were a sequence of events that happened at the right time that crashed the tank. On Sunday afternoon/evening, I change about 100 g out of the 550 g system. All the water has being mixed 1 week ago and well aged and aerated. I also tank apart my Kalk reactor and full it to just above capacity with 16 lbs of fresh kalk. I also cleaned my skimmer at the same time.
The way I have my tank set up was an automate top off system with a 10 g reservoir. My top-off added to my sump using gravity, regulated by a water level float valve. I finished with everything by 8:30 PM and observed the tank until about 11:00 PM and went to bed. Everything was great with our sign of problem.
I woke up at 4:30 (our son was sick and needed some medicine) the tank was milky and about 60 g of water was on the floor. The sump pump run dry, the tank lost circulation through the sump. One look at the system and equipments, I find that about 8 lbs of kalk have emptied into the system and my 10 g reservoir was empty. I always have 60 g of mixed water on hand at all time so I added that into my tank and got the water level back up to normal. What happened was that with the newly washed skimmer and the water change, the skimmer overflowed. It happens just at the time when the Kalk reactor was stirring (15 minutes every 3 hours) which result in adding very thick Kalk into the system. The Kalk added really cause the skimmer to dumps more water resulting in still more Kalk into the tank. This event started a vicious cycle, which ends when the Kalk reservoir run out and the sump pump chamber emptied. The skimmer then proceeds to empty about 60 g of water into the floor. I got the pH down to about 9 with some water change and added vinegar, but the pH spike cause the death of my Xenia colonies and death of countless animals in the sand bed and LR. This in turn causes the ammonia spike that kill the rest. I just cannot mix enough water to change enough for a 500 g system to prevent the vicious cycle of ammonia release. By Monday afternoon, I can see the battle was lost. I took whatever I could out to my freshly made water (tap and IO salt in my water container) I called my friends and asked them to keep some of my clams, SPS and put the fishes in my 10 g tank in my bed room. I tried to save my two 3 feet worms but they did not survive.
What did I learn from this disaster?
Never feed Kalk via a water level float valve. I will always use a dosing pump for kalk from now on.
I will always use a collecting container that is inside the sump, and a container that will prevent overflow.
I will only work on the tank on Saturday, and will keep checking on the tank for 6+ hours after doing work on the tank.

After this disaster, I know that the Bio Mass involved in Bristle worms along is about the same biomass involved in my fish in my tank.
My tank was really healthy. Ick was eliminated from my tank. After the stress that my fish and tank went though, my 5 Ocellaris and three Clown gobies did not have any disease in my 10 g tank. They completely recovered after 24 hrs. Some of the LPS are really hard to kill. These included Frogspawn, Anchor, Goniopora, Alveopora.

I spend the last week tried to clean my system to get the smell out of my house. I will get rid of all the sand and use new sand. I will re-cure my rock I will redo my system and re set it up in a few months.
I learned lots with setting up my tank (may my fishes, clams and snails, and my other animals RIP) and will eliminate this potential disaster from my new set-up. I will also incorporate what I learned over the last 4 year into my new system. Maybe in 4-6 months, I will start to stock my tank again.

Thanks for reading. I hope you learn something from my disaster.
Minh Nguyen

**Ninong** · 06-17-2003, 12:15 AM

Minh,

Please accept my sympathy. That must have been a terrible experience for you. It is difficult to anticipate all the possible things that might go wrong, especially when one mishap is facilitated by another as in your case.

I'm sure your tank will be just as beautiful as before in no time at all. I'm glad to see your gorgeous Gigas clam survived.

***zhenya*** · 06-17-2003, 12:36 AM

Minh,

I have no other words to say except that I am so sorry about all that happened. Like Ninong said, it is a horribile thing to go through for anybody. I'm sure as well that you'll rebuild your tank to be as beautiful as ever.

**kevinpo** · 06-17-2003, 09:43 AM

Minh,
I'm very sorry to hear about your horrible disaster. I know you must be broken hearted

.

Something very simple could have prevented your disaster that you may want to incorporate in the future. If you put a automatic shutoff on your skimmer collection container it will prevent the skimmer from producing any more waste once the 1-2 gal container is full. The automatic shutoff is simple to build and consists of a ping pong ball and some PVC pipe. As the water level rises in the waste collector the ball floats up covering the air exit from the waste collector putting back pressure on the skimmer causing it to shut down.

I can send you pictures of one or have one built for you.

Again, very sorry about your tank,
Kevin
PS: Let me know when you are ready and I will donate some very nice frags for your new setup.

**golfish** · 06-17-2003, 09:56 AM

Minh,
I'm sorry to hear about your tank, its a lose for all of us.

I agree about the dosing pump. I learned my lesson a few years ago.

*Papa Doug* · 06-17-2003, 10:05 AM

Crap Minh. That sucks. I am so sorry and can understand the pain of such losses.

I agree about float switches. After some skimmer overflows of my own, I also believe the auto shut off waste collectors are the way to go. Or something like a fool proof Euroreef.

Again, sorry.

Penguin · 06-17-2003, 01:30 PM

Minh,

So sorry to hear that. Your tank was an inspiration to us all. Best of luck when you decide to set up again.

organicreefer · 06-17-2003, 06:01 PM

truly unbeleiveable...my condolences.

it just goes to show that these things can happen to the best of us.the good thing is that even in the loss of youre tank you have contiued youre obligation as a reef aquarist in passing on the knowledge youve gained from this horrible event.
hopefully someone will learn (andd im sure someone will)from youre experience and not make the same mistakes:

always use a dosing pump and not a topoff system for dosing kalk ,and a waste collector is an excellent idea as well.

good luck in youre future setup-may it be more beautiful than youre last.

***Reefland*** · 06-17-2003, 06:55 PM

Sorry to hear about this Minh however I know what you feel. We lost nearly all of our SPS with this darn algae problem we have (still have). Although you problem was mechanical, a loss is a loss is a loss right? If there is anything any of us can do to help you out, just say so; I am sure everyone here at RL will chip in anyway possible.

Regards,
Scott Z.

SueT · 06-17-2003, 07:35 PM

Minh, I am so very, very sorry to read this. I cannot imagine how it has affected you although I'm sure I do to some extent.

You can take heart in knowing we all are pulling for you to set this reef system back up when you can.

Again, I am so sorry.

dgasmd · 06-17-2003, 07:35 PM

I couldn't even begin to tell you how bad I feel for you. That really sucks hairy and sweaty a...s

I am sure you ahve learned a lot and will redo some of your tank set up. I almost did the gravity fed thing going through a kalk reactor and was talked out of it by a couple of people. I was kind of mad I spend the money on a litermeter pump, but now I am more glad than ever. The automatic shut off in the skimmer is a must. It has saved me, or rather my 550 gal system, twice already. The other thing to keep in mind is to also maybe put some float switches and connect your return pump to it. You can put them in reverse so they will shut off the pump if the sump runs dry. Wished I would ahve done this too.

When the time comes, let me know and I may throw in some frags. My stuff has been 100% captive raised from captive corals.

Alberto

**Minh Nguyen** · 06-17-2003, 10:28 PM

Thanks verybody. I will be back.
Minh

**Minh Nguyen** · 06-19-2003, 02:50 PM

Thanks everybody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Lowey

Crap Minh. That sucks. I am so sorry and can understand the pain of such losses.

I agree about float switches. After some skimmer overflows of my own, I also believe the auto shut off waste collectors are the way to go. Or something like a fool proof Euroreef.

Again, sorry.

Doug,
For sure an auto shut off waste collector is the way to go with skimmer. Certainly this will elimminate the most common cause of "water on the floor." I will also dose Kalk with a dosing pump also, just in case there is another leak in the system somewhere.
Minh Nguyen

almostdiva · 06-19-2003, 03:36 PM

Minh,

Let me add my condolences to the list. A huge loss for you I'm sure. As Ninong said, I'm glad your beautiful gigas survived. I'm sure your next tank will be even better....

Rebecca

saltwaterdave · 06-19-2003, 08:45 PM

Minh,
I am really sorry about your tank.I am positive that you will get it back to the way it was before.
David

Overboard · 06-23-2003, 06:47 PM

Minh,

I am so sorry! What a terrible loss! Your tank was absolutely beautiful! What a bad turn of luck. I'll make sure and go the dosing pump route on my new set up.

The H. magnifica clone I got from you is doing great. So are the frags I got from you. When you get set back up, let me know, and I'll send you some frags off your frags! Also, I owe you a couple of frags out of my tank anyway.

I'll start really feeding the anemone well, and hope he clones for me.

Just let me know when you are ready.

Mark

**Minh Nguyen** · 06-24-2003, 04:22 PM

Mark, David and Rebecca,
Thanks.
Mark, I will check with you latter. I don't have my tank up so I can't pick up anything yet. May be in a few months.
I am glad the H. magnifica is doing well. The one I gave to the local reefer here in Corpus also doing well. The other two died when the tank crash. I am sure he will also let me have a clone. It may take a while however.
Thanks again,
Minh

funkshun23 · 06-24-2003, 04:50 PM

and i'm complaining about algae that i cant get rid off! sorry man!

***zhenya*** · 07-08-2003, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minh Nguyen

Mark, David and Rebecca,
Thanks.
Mark, I will check with you latter. I don't have my tank up so I can't pick up anything yet. May be in a few months.
I am glad the H. magnifica is doing well. The one I gave to the local reefer here in Corpus also doing well. The other two died when the tank crash. I am sure he will also let me have a clone. It may take a while however.
Thanks again,
Minh

Minh,

If there anything you see/would like from my tank,just let me know and it is yours. When you do restart your system that is.

Again, I'm terribly sorry for what have happened

jsaltzgi · 07-11-2003, 08:18 PM

My deepest sympathies. I'm suffering from withdrawal after a move- I can only imagine how hard this is. When you are back up and running, I would be more than happy to send you frags (if my corals survive their move to a friends system and then the gradual move back).

I had a near disaster in December when the effluent line from the Ca reactor was pulled out (unknowingly) before we left on vacation. Some friends came to feed the fish, etc. and were shocked when they walked in to the apartment and stepped on WET carpet and the water level in the tank down by 20+ gallons (out of about 90 gallons total). I lost a few sps and all the corals that were partially out of water were receded to how low the water level dropped (it was obvious as soon as I looked into the tank).

My heart nearly stopped when I got that call. The hardest part was that I wasn't able to return for another couple days.

That tube is now clamped... I also learned that it is sometimes easier to explain how to do something over the phone to someone who knows virtually nothing (my friends) than someone who thinks he (my father...) knows a lot more than he actually does...

With sympathy,
James

06-16-2003, 11:55 PM	#1
Minh Nguyen Contributing Member/Moderator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 675	My tank crashed. What happened? My beautiful 4 year old tank went down in flame on Sunday 6/8/2003. The whole tank died except 5 Ocellaris clowns, three Clown Gobies, my large 22 inches T. gigas, and a few LPS. Gone are about 35+ fishes, 19 clams, M. magnifica (two clones), my beautiful Rose anemone, and two other anemones, all my SPS and a few of my LPS. Also gone are two Bristle worms that are three feet long and thousands of other tank life. The tank was a total lost. My surviving lives went to friend tanks or LFS. What happened was very simple but I there were a sequence of events that happened at the right time that crashed the tank. On Sunday afternoon/evening, I change about 100 g out of the 550 g system. All the water has being mixed 1 week ago and well aged and aerated. I also tank apart my Kalk reactor and full it to just above capacity with 16 lbs of fresh kalk. I also cleaned my skimmer at the same time. The way I have my tank set up was an automate top off system with a 10 g reservoir. My top-off added to my sump using gravity, regulated by a water level float valve. I finished with everything by 8:30 PM and observed the tank until about 11:00 PM and went to bed. Everything was great with our sign of problem. I woke up at 4:30 (our son was sick and needed some medicine) the tank was milky and about 60 g of water was on the floor. The sump pump run dry, the tank lost circulation through the sump. One look at the system and equipments, I find that about 8 lbs of kalk have emptied into the system and my 10 g reservoir was empty. I always have 60 g of mixed water on hand at all time so I added that into my tank and got the water level back up to normal. What happened was that with the newly washed skimmer and the water change, the skimmer overflowed. It happens just at the time when the Kalk reactor was stirring (15 minutes every 3 hours) which result in adding very thick Kalk into the system. The Kalk added really cause the skimmer to dumps more water resulting in still more Kalk into the tank. This event started a vicious cycle, which ends when the Kalk reservoir run out and the sump pump chamber emptied. The skimmer then proceeds to empty about 60 g of water into the floor. I got the pH down to about 9 with some water change and added vinegar, but the pH spike cause the death of my Xenia colonies and death of countless animals in the sand bed and LR. This in turn causes the ammonia spike that kill the rest. I just cannot mix enough water to change enough for a 500 g system to prevent the vicious cycle of ammonia release. By Monday afternoon, I can see the battle was lost. I took whatever I could out to my freshly made water (tap and IO salt in my water container) I called my friends and asked them to keep some of my clams, SPS and put the fishes in my 10 g tank in my bed room. I tried to save my two 3 feet worms but they did not survive. What did I learn from this disaster? Never feed Kalk via a water level float valve. I will always use a dosing pump for kalk from now on. I will always use a collecting container that is inside the sump, and a container that will prevent overflow. I will only work on the tank on Saturday, and will keep checking on the tank for 6+ hours after doing work on the tank. After this disaster, I know that the Bio Mass involved in Bristle worms along is about the same biomass involved in my fish in my tank. My tank was really healthy. Ick was eliminated from my tank. After the stress that my fish and tank went though, my 5 Ocellaris and three Clown gobies did not have any disease in my 10 g tank. They completely recovered after 24 hrs. Some of the LPS are really hard to kill. These included Frogspawn, Anchor, Goniopora, Alveopora. I spend the last week tried to clean my system to get the smell out of my house. I will get rid of all the sand and use new sand. I will re-cure my rock I will redo my system and re set it up in a few months. I learned lots with setting up my tank (may my fishes, clams and snails, and my other animals RIP) and will eliminate this potential disaster from my new set-up. I will also incorporate what I learned over the last 4 year into my new system. Maybe in 4-6 months, I will start to stock my tank again. Thanks for reading. I hope you learn something from my disaster. Minh Nguyen __________________ Minh Visit my tank at: http://berlinmethod.com/minhn/ http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2/aquarium.htm

06-17-2003, 12:15 AM	#2
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 19,728	Minh, Please accept my sympathy. That must have been a terrible experience for you. It is difficult to anticipate all the possible things that might go wrong, especially when one mishap is facilitated by another as in your case. I'm sure your tank will be just as beautiful as before in no time at all. I'm glad to see your gorgeous Gigas clam survived. __________________ Ninong

06-17-2003, 12:36 AM	#3
*zhenya* Owner Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: new jersey,usa Posts: 7,727	Minh, I have no other words to say except that I am so sorry about all that happened. Like Ninong said, it is a horribile thing to go through for anybody. I'm sure as well that you'll rebuild your tank to be as beautiful as ever. __________________ Kind regards, Gene.

06-17-2003, 09:43 AM	#4
kevinpo Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 2,425	Minh, I'm very sorry to hear about your horrible disaster. I know you must be broken hearted . Something very simple could have prevented your disaster that you may want to incorporate in the future. If you put a automatic shutoff on your skimmer collection container it will prevent the skimmer from producing any more waste once the 1-2 gal container is full. The automatic shutoff is simple to build and consists of a ping pong ball and some PVC pipe. As the water level rises in the waste collector the ball floats up covering the air exit from the waste collector putting back pressure on the skimmer causing it to shut down. I can send you pictures of one or have one built for you. Again, very sorry about your tank, Kevin PS: Let me know when you are ready and I will donate some very nice frags for your new setup. __________________ SPSguy On - On

06-17-2003, 10:05 AM	#6
Papa Doug Gallery Team Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Manitoba, Canada Posts: 794	Crap Minh. That sucks. I am so sorry and can understand the pain of such losses. I agree about float switches. After some skimmer overflows of my own, I also believe the auto shut off waste collectors are the way to go. Or something like a fool proof Euroreef. Again, sorry. __________________ Doug Missing my friend Kia

06-17-2003, 09:56 AM	#5
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,942	Minh, I'm sorry to hear about your tank, its a lose for all of us. I agree about the dosing pump. I learned my lesson a few years ago.

06-17-2003, 01:30 PM	#7
Penguin Polymath Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ Posts: 526	Minh, So sorry to hear that. Your tank was an inspiration to us all. Best of luck when you decide to set up again. __________________ As a nation, you're faced with the choice of taking over the world or offering good eats at reasonable prices.

06-17-2003, 06:01 PM	#8
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	truly unbeleiveable...my condolences. it just goes to show that these things can happen to the best of us.the good thing is that even in the loss of youre tank you have contiued youre obligation as a reef aquarist in passing on the knowledge youve gained from this horrible event. hopefully someone will learn (andd im sure someone will)from youre experience and not make the same mistakes: always use a dosing pump and not a topoff system for dosing kalk ,and a waste collector is an excellent idea as well. good luck in youre future setup-may it be more beautiful than youre last.

06-17-2003, 06:55 PM	#9
*Reefland* Owner Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Bardstown, KY Posts: 13,031	Sorry to hear about this Minh however I know what you feel. We lost nearly all of our SPS with this darn algae problem we have (still have). Although you problem was mechanical, a loss is a loss is a loss right? If there is anything any of us can do to help you out, just say so; I am sure everyone here at RL will chip in anyway possible. Regards, Scott Z.

06-17-2003, 07:35 PM	#10
SueT Mayor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Houston,Tex. USA Posts: 544	Minh, I am so very, very sorry to read this. I cannot imagine how it has affected you although I'm sure I do to some extent. You can take heart in knowing we all are pulling for you to set this reef system back up when you can. Again, I am so sorry. __________________ 120g ecosystem sps/clam tank: http://berlinmethod.com/suet/

06-17-2003, 07:35 PM	#11
dgasmd 2-much-mojo-4-my-shirt Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Owings Mills, MD Posts: 48	I couldn't even begin to tell you how bad I feel for you. That really sucks hairy and sweaty a...s I am sure you ahve learned a lot and will redo some of your tank set up. I almost did the gravity fed thing going through a kalk reactor and was talked out of it by a couple of people. I was kind of mad I spend the money on a litermeter pump, but now I am more glad than ever. The automatic shut off in the skimmer is a must. It has saved me, or rather my 550 gal system, twice already. The other thing to keep in mind is to also maybe put some float switches and connect your return pump to it. You can put them in reverse so they will shut off the pump if the sump runs dry. Wished I would ahve done this too. When the time comes, let me know and I may throw in some frags. My stuff has been 100% captive raised from captive corals. Alberto __________________ "Water keeps a ship floating, but it is also what sinks it"

06-17-2003, 10:28 PM	#12
Minh Nguyen Contributing Member/Moderator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 675	Thanks verybody. I will be back. Minh __________________ Minh Visit my tank at: http://berlinmethod.com/minhn/ http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2/aquarium.htm

06-19-2003, 03:36 PM	#14
almostdiva Mayor Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 963	Minh, Let me add my condolences to the list. A huge loss for you I'm sure. As Ninong said, I'm glad your beautiful gigas survived. I'm sure your next tank will be even better.... Rebecca

06-19-2003, 08:45 PM	#15
saltwaterdave Citizen Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 145	Minh, I am really sorry about your tank.I am positive that you will get it back to the way it was before. David

06-23-2003, 06:47 PM	#16
Overboard Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 10	Minh, I am so sorry! What a terrible loss! Your tank was absolutely beautiful! What a bad turn of luck. I'll make sure and go the dosing pump route on my new set up. The H. magnifica clone I got from you is doing great. So are the frags I got from you. When you get set back up, let me know, and I'll send you some frags off your frags! Also, I owe you a couple of frags out of my tank anyway. I'll start really feeding the anemone well, and hope he clones for me. Just let me know when you are ready. Mark

06-24-2003, 04:22 PM	#17
Minh Nguyen Contributing Member/Moderator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 675	Mark, David and Rebecca, Thanks. Mark, I will check with you latter. I don't have my tank up so I can't pick up anything yet. May be in a few months. I am glad the H. magnifica is doing well. The one I gave to the local reefer here in Corpus also doing well. The other two died when the tank crash. I am sure he will also let me have a clone. It may take a while however. Thanks again, Minh __________________ Minh Visit my tank at: http://berlinmethod.com/minhn/ http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2/aquarium.htm

06-24-2003, 04:50 PM	#18
funkshun23 Just Moved In Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: florida Posts: 34	oh my! and i'm complaining about algae that i cant get rid off! sorry man!

07-11-2003, 08:18 PM	#20
jsaltzgi Reef/ SPS Addict Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Columbus,OH,43081 Posts: 144	My deepest sympathies. I'm suffering from withdrawal after a move- I can only imagine how hard this is. When you are back up and running, I would be more than happy to send you frags (if my corals survive their move to a friends system and then the gradual move back). I had a near disaster in December when the effluent line from the Ca reactor was pulled out (unknowingly) before we left on vacation. Some friends came to feed the fish, etc. and were shocked when they walked in to the apartment and stepped on WET carpet and the water level in the tank down by 20+ gallons (out of about 90 gallons total). I lost a few sps and all the corals that were partially out of water were receded to how low the water level dropped (it was obvious as soon as I looked into the tank). My heart nearly stopped when I got that call. The hardest part was that I wasn't able to return for another couple days. That tube is now clamped... I also learned that it is sometimes easier to explain how to do something over the phone to someone who knows virtually nothing (my friends) than someone who thinks he (my father...) knows a lot more than he actually does... With sympathy, James

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