Pictures of Ninong's tank in progress.

[zhenya]

Originally posted by Ninong
So far the Tunze has lowered the sand bed on the right side of the tank by at least 2" and raised the sand bed on the left side of the tank by an equal amount. And it is still moving it. I might have a bare bottom tank on the right side by morning.

That is not good,Ninong. :eek3: You got to put some rock in there even if you can't see You'll rearrange it later when you can see,or you have to shot that thing off untill the water clears. FWIW, Ninong, I put three full boxes of Fiji rock into my 110g tank 5yrs ago (fresh and covered in all kinds of crap,I just rinsed it off in the backets of salt water) and cycle it in the tank and did not really smell anything. I mean my 110g tank is an the family room and my wife would've killed me if it had a hint of unpleasant odor Never used any shrimp or anything to start a cycle either-just rock.I had a damsel in there after three weeks when I could read no ammonia or the NO2,that's how quick it was.
Just a thought ;)

[Ninong]

I'm not in any particular hurry to get the live rock. I want the circulation devices in their proper locations first and I want to be able to see what I'm doing. From the looks of things, the Tunze is not going to work out in its present location. I hope it does better tomorrow when I try it at the far left side of the tank.

I also would like to reglue that piece of black acrylic inside the corner overflow compartment tomorrow. That means shutting down the pumps for 24 hours. Getting the live rock before all of these little issues are resolved would just add unnecessary stress to a situation that is stressful enough already. I can tell you one thing for sure, setting up a much larger tank with access all around and lots of space for the equipment would be much, much easier than this little 120-gal tank in a corner of the room with zero access on the right side and the rear and inadequate space underneath.

[zhenya]

Ninong,
I can surely relate to the luck of space,everything is crammed in the stands of both of my tanks,a real PITA for sure.
I was just busting your chops about the rock,so do forgive me
I'm positive you know exactly what you're doing and it all will fall into place after awhile. It is a great thread IMO(remember Scotts documanting my tank?) and surely should be archived so someone could draw from the experience. I just can't help to wonder if I could use one of the
6060's for my 75 but I'm afraid that it will blow over any coral that is not nailed to the rock.It is only 18" deep after all
Hopefully when I return from Bermuda early next month you'll have some pics with upgrades.

[Ninong]

Just as I expected, the Tunze Stream has kicked up the sand bed a lot. Visibility in the tank is back to where it was about 12 hrs after starting the tank almost four days ago.

There is a 12" wide crater in the sand bed in the right front corner of the tank that slopes all the way down to about 1" above the bottom glass. The surrounding sand bed is about 9" deep, so there is an 8" difference in height of the sand bed between the rim of the crater and its lowest point. It is impossible to see what other landscaping changes were made overnight but the profile of the sand bed against the front glass of the tank is changed completely from what it was before I turned on the Tunze Stream. It would appear that there is not enough distance between the outlet nozzle of the Stream and the front glass of the tank even with the output aimed at a 45 degree angle. The flow from the Stream is hitting the right 1/3 of the front glass and the force of the flow is digging up the sand in the right front corner of the tank.

I am going to shut the tank down in a little while anyway so that will allow the suspended sand to settle some... I hope. I don't think I can make things work with the Stream in its present location. What I intend to do now is remove the left side Sea-Swirl from the tank, put the Tunze Stream in that spot and re-open the 3/4" Lockline return through the side of the corner overflow compartment. Hopefully I can make that arrangement work even with this deep sand bed.

[scubadude]

I know you prolly already know this Ninong, and that you are dealing w/ a catch22 but when you do get rock in there that will decrease the amount of sand getting blown around as it will border/deflect in alot of places thus protecting the SB from turning your tank into a dustorm

[Ninong]

I know you prolly already know this Ninong, and that you are dealing w/ a catch22 but when you do get rock in there that will decrease the amount of sand getting blown around as it will border/deflect in alot of places thus protecting the SB from turning your tank into a dustorm

Rocky,

Yes, that's what I'm hoping. I don't have any other options left as far as placement of the Tunze Stream is concerned so I'm going to let the tank settle for 24 hours while I re-glue the black acrylic inside the overflow compartment. Then I will remove the left side Sea-Swirl and put the Stream in that spot.

I still want the water to clear up some before I order the live rock. If it looks like I can make that arrangement work, then I will turn off the Stream so that the sand can settle down more. After the rock is in the tank, I can turn the Stream back on again. It's either that or giving up on the idea of increasing the total flow in the tank. The return pump cannot handle three 3/4" returns and two 3/4" returns (Sea-Swirls) just don't seem like enough to me.

[Ninong]

The pumps have been off for about two hours now but I still can't see the sand bed looking from the top through the water column. The water is too cloudy to see more than 12 inches or so. Shining a flashlight through the front glass I can see about 14" into the tank at the surface of the sand bed. The crater in the right front corner goes all the way down to the glass bottom of the tank. The sand bed has waves and ridges on it's surface and is more than 9" deep just outside the crater. The sand bed has shifted from the right side of the tank to the middle of the tank.

I won't be able to try the Tunze in the new location until late tonight or tomorrow morning because I applied a small amount of that Marine Goop stuff to the top two inches of the black acrylic piece inside the corner overflow compartment in an attempt to make it stick to the graylite glass and I have to wait for it to cure. I'm not sure this will work but I'm willing to give it a try.

[Ninong]

Did not get much accomplished yesterday. Spent most of the day helping my brother-in-law with lawnmower problems. He just bought it a few weeks ago and it has been breaking down constantly, so we drove it onto the trailer and took it back to the store. He made them take it back and got a full refund. I wandered around the store (Lowes) while he was doing the 'complaining' !! and checked out their generators. Remember, we lost our power for 6 hours during TS Bill and TS Claudette is just south of us in the Gulf right now but heading for Texas, we hope. http://www.intellicast.com/Local/USN...=none&pid=none

Didn't have to do much of a selling job on my bro-in-law, he liked the idea of a generator right away. Cool. But, being the redneck show-off that he is, he didn't think their 5500 watters were macho enough for him.

So we went to Home Depot about 40 miles away to check out their generators. He thought he wanted one to run the whole house until someone explained the facts of generator life to him, especially the price part. ;; We got a 7000 watt (12,250 surge watts) Generac, which was the largest they keep in stock. He wanted to order a 10,000 watt model but that would have taken two weeks and cost almost twice as much and I don't think it would have run either of the two central A/C units anyway.

So now I have the power outage problem handled. Now I have to convince him that the drinking water is unsafe. ;)

Checked the black acrylic piece inside the corner overflow compartment and it seems to be good and stuck to the graylite glass. Hope it stays that way. I'm glad I had the pumps turned off for the past 24 hours because now I can finally see all over the tank. The water is not crystal clear but it is clear enough to see the full sand bed from either the front glass or looking down through the water. The Tunze Stream really did a number on the Southdown sand bed. :eek3: You can definitely see the bare glass bottom of the tank in the right front corner and the sand bed in the rest of the tank ranges from a low of about 4.5" to a high of about 9.5".

With all that running around yesterday, I never did get my AquaController II hooked up but I did manage to install a small under-cabinet fluorescent light that I picked up at Lowes. Now I don't need a flashlight every time I look inside the cabinet. It's just an 18" T8 (15 w) fixture that cost practically nothing but it seems to be doing the job. I installed it just inside the right doors in the ceiling of the cabinet. I might even get another one for the left side but I probably don't really need another one.

I'm getting ready to smooth out the sand bed so that I can see what landscaping changes the Tunze will make when I try it out on the far left side of the tank. I am not optimistic about this experiment but what the heck, it's the next logical step in the process of figuring out how to set up the circulation.

Wish me luck because I have a feeling I'm going to need it.

[zhenya]

Good luck!!!!

[Ninong]

Good luck!!!!

Thanks!

Observations: I smoothed out the sandbed as much as I could and in the process turned the water back into a Southdown milkshake. I disconnected the left side Sea-Swirl and closed the ball valve to that outlet. I managed to hang the Tunze Stream from the corner overflow but in the spot where the Sea-Swirl had been. It is difficult to mount anything on this tank because of the perimeter splash guard. The net change with this move is that the Tunze Stream is now about 10" farther to the left and about 6.5" closer to the front of the tank. Plus there is no other left side outlet at present because I have not yet opened up the 3/4" Lockline return out of the corner overflow compartment. I figured I would wait on that until I get a chance to see what the Tunze does in it's new spot.

I had to close the ball valve on the return pump just a little bit because it looked like I was pushing too much flow through the one remaining Sea-Swirl. If I had the Lockline return working, that would not have been a problem. I looked up the specs on the LG 4MDQX-SC and it's rated 1325 gph @ 1', 1225 gph @ 3', 1080 gph at 6' and 675 gph @ 12' with a max. ht. of 17'. The 3/4" Sea-Swirl is rated for a maximum flow of 850 gph. Again, this will not be a problem once I open the other outlet, the one through the overflow wall.

Right now, a little more than an hour after restarting the pumps, it is hard to say what's going on with the sand bed thanks to the cloudy water again. I can only see the profile against the glass plus about 2" into the tank. That's it! It just dawned on me that the first configuration had both the Tunze Stream and a Sea-Swirl aiming at the right side of the tank even though the Steam was angled at the right third of the front glass. Right now I have the Stream putting out 1600 gph from a 2" outlet against a recirculating Sea-Swirl putting out about 900 gph from a 3/4" outlet. The flow from the Sea-Swirl is more forceful than the flow from the Stream right now because the flow from the Stream is broader and less concentrated. I had to lower the outlet nozzle on the Sea-Swirl as much as it would go to prevent too much surface turbulence. As it is, there are noticeable waves running from right to left across the surface now. The Tunze Stream is positioned so that it's output comes from about 5" below the surface.

[Ninong]

I reinstalled the Lockline and opened up that outlet through the side of the corner overflow compartment about halfway, which is still a rather forceful flow now that the return pump is not pushing three outlets. I twisted the Lockline around so that it is aimed straight at the middle of the front glass of the tank. It is flowing near the surface the same as the Sea-Swirl. I was afraid that aiming it along the back wall towards the right side of the tank would just help the Tunze dig up that side of the sand bed but I can always experiment with it later to see what works best.

One other observation: The black acrylic piece inside the corner overflow is still stuck to the graylite glass and the water level in the corner overflow is now exactly 2" below the grate -- I measured it! Previously it was about 1.5" below the grate because the black acrylic piece had separated about 1" away from the glass and was messing up the flow of water from the front side of the overflow compartment. There is no noticeable difference in the sound of the overflow, it is still very quiet unless the little air hole gets clogged with foam, in which case I hear it right away because it starts fluctuating up and down about 2" but does not go into the 'flushing' mode that it was going into before I partially closed the ball valve on the drain line.

Waiting to see what things look like tomorrow morning because this may be the way to go. I hope. That would give me 1000+ gph from the return pump and 1600 gph from the Tunze Stream. Regardless of what the sand bed looks like, I may have to go ahead and order the live rock anyway to get that started. I'll probably hold onto the extra Sea-Swirl until after the live rock is in and I decide whether I'm satisfied with the Tunze Stream or not. I hope I can make the Stream work out because I don't think 1000 gph is enough flow for a 120-gal tank.

[zhenya]

Ninong,

So far it sounds like you've found just the right balance,hopefully
I like to ask you another question and please forgive me if I missed it in your previous posts. Are you planning on alternating the current via some type of controller(from Tunze I mean,i.e. on/off periods) or just use the swirls to provide random flow all around?Looks like the 1000+ gl/h from the returns and about 1600 from the Tunze will be just dandy for any type of "sps" or whatever you deside to go with.
I think that after the rock will go in the currents might change some but you can always adjust it later. One more,does Tunze sticks out forvard much from the brackets? I'm seriously thinking of getting one for the 75g as I don't think I have enough flow overall in there-mag12-through lockline return and three MJ-1200(wich I hate really) inside the tank on a wave maker.

[Ninong]

So far it sounds like you've found just the right balance,hopefully
I like to ask you another question and please forgive me if I missed it in your previous posts. Are you planning on alternating the current via some type of controller(from Tunze I mean,i.e. on/off periods) or just use the swirls to provide random flow all around?

No, I'm not planning on alternating the current in this tank, although I think that's a great idea, especially for larger tanks. I would love to hear feedback from someone with a 300+ gallon tank who is running the top-of-the-line flow adjustable Streams on Tunze's tide simulation controller. That sounds like an excellent idea or at least it looks great in their ads. Their best Stream models even have adjustable flow controls.

One more,does Tunze sticks out forvard much from the brackets? I'm seriously thinking of getting one for the 75g as I don't think I have enough flow overall in there-mag12-through lockline return and three MJ-1200(wich I hate really) inside the tank on a wave maker.

I don't have access to a digital camera right now and even if I did you wouldn't be able to see much :eek3: but mrok12 posted a picture of his Tunze Stream 6060 here: Pictures of Ninong's tank in progress.

If you check out this picture of my rock support structure on the left side of the tank I can explain how I positioned the Tunze Stream: Pictures of Ninong's tank in progress.

That tall upright support is 19" tall and it is 4" in front of the front of the overflow compartment and 3" from the left side of the tank. Moving it in any way would have involved lifting out a structure that is tied together and goes around the overflow compartment and then along the back wall of the tank. It would have totally screwed up the entire sand bed and I would have had an impossible task in trying to rearrange it without removing all of the sand and starting over.

I managed to suspend the Stream in the corner behind the upright support. It is flush with the front wall of the overflow compartment and the outlet is at the same level as the top of the upright support. It has no effect on the performance of the overflow since it is several inches below the surface. I have no idea if I will be able to get away with this placement once I start putting rock in the tank. At the very least it would require me to leave a path open for the outflow from the Stream. It might work if I can find the right size piece of rock to just barely conceal the cross bar at the top of the support thing without extending beyond it on the right. I may be able to conceal the Tunze Stream completely. Then I will attempt to build a rock structure on the right side of the tank to absorb most of the energy from the Tunze Stream so that it does not all get deflected downwards into the sand bed at the right front corner.

[zhenya]

I think I get the idea of what you're talking about,Ninong I hope it works out well for you in terms of Tunze and rockwork,but it does sounds reasonable. You have said that the output is much broader from Tunze,does it mean that it won't blow things over in a 3' distance from it? Or shorter distance?I mean with the LR in front of it and taking most of the force? Most of my corals are not secured permanently,hence the questions

[Ninong]

I think I get the idea of what you're talking about,Ninong I hope it works out well for you in terms of Tunze and rockwork,but it does sounds reasonable. You have said that the output is much broader from Tunze,does it mean that it won't blow things over in a 3' distance from it? Or shorter distance?I mean with the LR in front of it and taking most of the force? Most of my corals are not secured permanently,hence the questions

The outflow from the Tunze Stream 6060 is 1600 gph through a 2" outlet vs. a maximum outflow of 850 gph through a 3/4" outlet for a Sea-Swirl run at capacity. If you place your hand 12" in front of either one you will feel a forceful flow of water but the flow from the Sea-Swirl will be more concentrated since the cross section of a 3/4" pipe is only 1/7 that of a 2" pipe (Pi*r^2).

The advantage of the Sea-Swirl is that it oscillates back and forth and can cover your whole tank that way. The advantage of the Tunze Stream is that it has a very broad, high volume flow and the pricier models have flow volume control. All of the Tunze Stream models can be controlled with a Tunze tide simulation controller.

Another advantage of the Sea-Swirl is that the small, quiet motor that oscillates the return is out of the water. In fact, the nozzle is the only part in the water. Compare that to powerheads (and the Tunze Stream is just a glorified, fancy powerhead) that have their heat producing motors in the water as well as the entire body of the device.

The main advantage of the Tunze Stream models is that you get a very large amount of flow without having to buy two or three Ampmasters to produce it. In fact, four of the top Tunze Stream units producing 3175 gph each = 12,700 gph. You would need three or four Ampmasters on a closed loop running eleven 1" Sea-Swirls to match that.

Sea-Swirls are fairly new in the hobby and the Tunze Streams are even newer. Time will tell which ones hold up best in the long run.

I don't know what you tell you about a Tunze Stream in your 75-gal tank. My experience right now is that the flow from just one 6060 is a bit much for my 120-gal tank's sandbed but that could be because there is no live rock in the tank yet and also because the sand bed is new, deep and composed of very fine sand. I just checked my tank to see how the sand bed is holding up after I evened it all out when I changed the location of the Tunze Stream. The sand bed now varies from 4" to 8" and the current in the tank is moving the sand into dunes away from the right side of the tank. Pretty much the same pattern as before except that we haven't gotten down to bare tank bottom glass yet. And yes, the water is still very cloudy.

P.S. -- I just rechecked mrok12's post and it looks like he's running one 6060 in his present 120-gal tank is going to put four 6060's in the new 180-gal tank. Run a search on Reef Central under "Tunze AND Stream" and see if you can find anybody running them in a 75-gal tank.

[Ninong]

The water is still very cloudy but not quite as cloudy as last night. The Tunze Stream has twisted its support bracket so that it is now aimed slightly downwards causing even more havoc with the sand bed on the right side of the tank. The problem is that my tank's top frame/perimeter glass design does not permit either of the two mounting options that are available with the standard suspension bracket, which is why I mounted it over the top of the overflow compartment. It would remain level if I chose to aim the outlet directly at the front glass less than a foot away but once I twist the unit on its swivel mount so that it is aimed at the far side of the tank, the torque, or kickback, from the unit in operation twists the lower part of the mounting bracket towards the left side tank wall. I can't mount it flush in the corner due to the 2" perimeter glass.

The solution to this problem would be to silicone the mounting bracket permanently to the glass on the left side of the tank. That would require that I am completely satisfied with the Tunze Stream in my particular situation and satisfied that I have chosen the best location. I can't say that I have reached a conclusion on either of those points yet.

It is obvious right now that my water is still nowhere near clear and the Tunze Stream is still kicking up the sand bed big time! Perhaps I will remove the Tunze Stream, at least temporarily, and reconnect the left side Sea-Swirl? That would reduce the total amount of water movement in the tank substantially and hopefully the sand bed would settle down enough for me to be able to see across the tank when looking in through either the front glass or the open top.

It is unclear to me at this time whether I will be able to incorporate the Tunze Stream in a 45" long tank with a deep sand bed without having problems with the sand being kicked up continuously into the water column. And I'm not sure it will improve enough after the live rock is in the tank either. Right now it looks next to hopeless. So I either rethink the Stream or rethink the sand bed. To complicate my decision even further, a few of the long time reefkeepers on Reef Central who switched to deep sand beds three or four years ago are now reporting that they are experiencing hair algae problems that they attribute to phosphate leaching up from their "mature" deep sand beds. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=210605

Phosphate is something that is not processed in a DSB according to what Dr. Ron wrote in his articles on DSB methodology. He mentions this and recommends macroalgae harvesting from either the main display or an attached refugium as one way of exporting phosphate. I do not have an attached refugium yet and may have a difficult time trying to squeeze one in anywhere near the main display tank without turning my room into an LFS. I haven't seen any comments anywhere about whether the regular use of Phosguard would solve this problem or not, but even if it does, there are other potential long-term problems that may arise according to those who have decided to remove their present deep sand beds. Dr. Ron has written recently about his hypothesis that heavy metals accumulate in the sand bed and in the live rock requiring periodic reestablishment of both perhaps as often as every four years and probably no longer than seven years. Some of the same reefkeepers who were sold on the idea of a deep sand bed are now convinced that their DSB's have reached a saturation point and are no longer capable of processing additional nutrients. They have, in effect, become nutrient sinks. This is an issue that has been hotly contested for the past two or three years but all of a sudden we now have several guys who were true believers in deep sand bed 'theology' recanting their beliefs and removing their DSB's.

So how many reeftanks do I know of with deep sand beds that have been functioning satisfactorily for more than say six years? That's hard to say because you never know if they are forgetting to mention that they restarted their tank for some unrelated issue and therefore their deep sand bed is not actually several years old but only a few years old. I know of one local 150-gal reeftank with a six inch deep sand bed that is supposed to be seven years old but I have no way of knowing if that's a true statement or not. I know that Tropicorium uses very deep sand beds in their systems but that's a commercial coral farm operation and who knows how often they change out the sand??? I know of some public aquaria in France that have deep sand beds that have been functioning for many years but they are plenum systems with nightly NSW exchanges. I know that there are hundreds and hundreds, maybe even thousands, of people on Reef Central running DSB's right now in their reeftanks but most of them switched to DSB's within the past four years.

I know that Biogeek (Dr. Rob Toonen) maintained a deep sand bed in the UC Davis reeftank for several years and wrote extensively on deep sand bed methodology on the boards three or four years ago but you might consider him an expert and perhaps he was doing it differently.

I know that Minh Nguyen had a beautiful, large reeftank with a very deep sand bed but that tank was set up less than three years when it crashed due to a mechanical problem unrelated to the deep sand bed. I'm not sure if that was his first experience with deep sand beds or not, but I will have to ask him that question.

[zhenya]

It would make an interesting discussion,Ninong. I was always under the impression that in order for the really deep sand bed to function properly,it needs to be very large in dimmensions and have certain diverse infauna living in it and just living but multiplying.Correct me if I'm wrong,Ninong(and I'm sure you will ;) ),but I don't really believe that most(my included) reef tanks have the needed overall dimensions to support also needed infauna,uncluding bacterial. I'm concerned that my DSB,wich is not very deep (only 4") may eventually crash,i.e. leach all the stuff back into the water. I can not measure any PO4 yet but it does not mean that it isn't there,I just can't measure it with test kits that are available.
Like you've said, maybe large exchanges with NSW can make it last longer? In my case I think it is inevitable that the whole system will have to be restarted fresh and it is just the question of when I already see the population of the pods dwindling down and even certain snails like Stomatella are not reproducing anymore.Their population literally exploded in the first year(I only started with one that came on some rock) but I don't see as many anymore.The whole side walls of the tank were covered with them and the pods,rock as well.Corals started to grow faster with the addition of the calcium reactor but are they growing fast enough?I don't know...I'm getting depressed now

[Ninong]

I was always under the impression that in order for the really deep sand bed to function properly,it needs to be very large in dimmensions and have certain diverse infauna living in it and just living but multiplying.

Yes, according to the Numero Uno DSB Guru, the DSB needs a minimum amount of surface area and total mass to be able to maintain a sufficiently diverse population of sand bed infauna/meiofauna to keep it functioning properly. Even with periodic injections of fresh sand bed infauna, a deep sand bed in a 20-gal or smaller tank is prone to potential failure according to what I remember reading.

However, your 75-gal tank is certainly large enough according to Dr. Ron to support a functioning DSB. Here are the exact sizes and depths of the sand beds in Dr. Ron's personal tanks:

System 1 (Lagoonal Reef)

• 45 gallon rectangular tank

System 2 (Stichodactyla haddoni habitat)

• 60 gallon hex tank

System 3 (Low light system)

• 42 gallon hex tank

Sand Depth
Lagoonal Reef 3-5 inches
Anemone Habitat 7-8 inches
Low Light System 4-5 inches

I can not measure any PO4 yet but it does not mean that it isn't there,I just can't measure it with test kits that are available.

That's correct. Just because it doesn't show up on tests doesn't mean it's not there. The same can be said for nitrates, which is why Daniel Knop says he likes to see test readings of at least 1 ppm nitrate in his clam tanks to make sure there is enough to keep the clams happy as a clam.

Like you've said, maybe large exchanges with NSW can make it last longer?

Yes, but I said that in answer to a different potential problem altogether -- the potential buildup of possibly toxic heavy metals. The issue being discussed right now has little to do with heavy metals. The question is whether deep sand beds eventually become "filled up" and cease functioning as nutrient processing resources and instead become nutrient sinks. This has been dismissed in previous threads by the proponents of DSB's but this is the first time that several reefkeepers who have tried DSB's for a few years are coming out and saying that they now think they made a mistake in going the DSB route because their experience leads them to believe that DSB's eventually fail, possibly within as little as two to three years, and not just because of possible problems with toxic metals.

I don't know...I'm getting depressed now

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. :eek3:

On another topic altogether, remember when I posted this statement earlier in this long-winded thread? "Sorry but I don't have any pictures to post because my nephew borrowed my sister's digital camera and took it to Florida with him for a week's vacation."

Well, my nephew just called. He somehow managed to drop the camera overboard, so it is now swimming with the fishes somewhere off the coast of Pensacola. :eek3: He said I should ask my sister (his mom) to hurry up and order another one.

I just took a peek inside the tank, whatever that means, and have come to the conclusion that the Tunze Stream will have to come out if I am ever going to clear up this cloudy water. I think I'll run with both Sea-Swirls and the Lockline outlet open. That will give me a total flow of about 1000 gph coming out of three separate outlets which will hopefully be gentle enough to allow this cloudy water situation to clear up. I'll worry about the Tunze Stream question later on but right now I need the sand bed to settle down, preferably in a reasonably level landscape across the entire bottom of the tank instead of the present situation where it is 3" deep on the right side and 9" deep in other spots.

[zhenya]

Yes, according to the Numero Uno DSB Guru, the DSB needs a minimum amount of surface area and total mass to be able to maintain a sufficiently diverse population of sand bed infauna/meiofauna to keep it functioning properly. Even with periodic injections of fresh sand bed infauna, a deep sand bed in a 20-gal or smaller tank is prone to potential failure according to what I remember reading.

However, your 75-gal tank is certainly large enough according to Dr. Ron to support a functioning DSB.

On another topic altogether, remember when I posted this statement earlier in this long-winded thread? "Sorry but I don't have any pictures to post because my nephew borrowed my sister's digital camera and took it to Florida with him for a week's vacation."

Well, my nephew just called. He somehow managed to drop the camera overboard, so it is now swimming with the fishes somewhere off the coast of Pensacola. :eek3: He said I should ask my sister (his mom) to hurry up and order another one.

Sorry,Ninong. I didn't mean to sound like that

Regarding that DSB "thing", I failed to add that it has to be an open sand area and not disturbed,if I'm thinking correctly that is
I hardly have any in my 75g tank(needed more rock to put more corals in )
I do remember what you've said about camera being on vacation and did not ask you about pics... now all I can say is "Oi"
Funny how kid desided that it is you who have to tell his mom about it Can't help but laugh..., sorry. My kids always asked my wife to tell me if they broken something,like I would scream or kill them or something...She would

PS. Forgot to add that I've put flared nuzzle on my lockline and it helped to difuse some of the immediate force of the flow directly in front of it. I also aimed it diagonally accross the tank,just like you tried with the Tunze-it works well just looks ugly.

[Ninong]

Regarding that DSB "thing", I failed to add that it has to be an open sand area and not disturbed...

It is not supposed to be stirred or siphoned. It should have as much open space as possible but in those spots where there is live rock, the live rock should make contact with the sand bed to facilitate migration between the live rock and the sand bed. Some are now saying that bacterial migration between the sand bed and the live rock might pose problems, but that's coming from the anti-DSB camp.

Funny how kid desided that it is you who have to tell his mom about it Can't help but laugh..., sorry. My kids always asked my wife to tell me if they broken something,like I would scream or kill them or something...

Actually my nephew will turn 25 later this month, so I guess he's really not a kid anymore. The funny thing about this is that his mom just ordered him a complete new Dell computer system for his birthday next week that will include a digital camera better than hers. He knows this already but he wanted to hurry up and get word to her that she needs to order another camera for herself. I think he wants to make sure she doesn't borrow his new one.