problems again :(

[LittleDevil]

I am having some more problems with my tank. I am getting the reddish stringy algea coming mostly from under the LR. (see pic) Also loosing all of my coralline from the back wall, it is actually falling off in big chunks. I am using R/O water, that is reading "0" on my TDS meter. Skimmer is working good.
Cal. 300 alttile low, need to refill my C02 for the C.R.
alk-12
ph 8.3
amm 0
Any idea's?
Thanks
Matt

[Northman_with_reef]

The Algea looks alot like Cyano Bacteria.....

Try to get your Ca up and see what happends.
Do you add Kaklwasser? If not, you Should....

[Joaco]

Looks like cyanobacteria to me too.
If your coralline algae is falling off in chunks, your low Ca can sure be one cause, but I would also suggest high PO4 levels (you didn't give any readings), since phospates (PO4) inhibit calcification.

You say your skimmer is working well, but is it removing enough? (e.g. a Seaclone in a 200 gal tank would almost be a sure bet for cyano)
The effluent of your calcium reactor and Kalkwasser precipitate phosphates as calcium phosphate on contact, take advantage of it.

For example, one of the easiest and fastest ways to drop PO4 levels (by precipitation) is to drip Kalkwasser into the venturi intake of the skimmer, where precipitated calcium phosphate will be removed with the skimmate.

One of the main causes of cyanobacteria blooms is high levels of nutrients, so I would look for the cause there first:

-overfeeding? overstocked?
-skimmer good enough? (efficient enough, properly sized?)
-waterchanges: periodic and large enough? (this of course lowers the nutrient concentration by dilution with new unpoluted water)
-tank circulation good enough? cyanobacteria likes calm areas
-is it time to exchange bulbs? old bulbs shift in color spectrum, and some favor cyanobacteria

I suggest:
Lower your nutrients levels (see above), check your PO4 level, and start siphoning the cyanobateria out (it peels very easily, like a film)
DON'T use chemicals to kill cyanobateria, you would fight the result, but not the cause. Plus by killing the cyano, you would only increase the nutrient level in the tank, making things worse (like using gasoline to fight fire, instead of water), unless you siphon it all out to prevent that.

Joaco

[LittleDevil]

Looks like cyanobacteria to me too.
If your coralline algae is falling off in chunks, your low Ca can sure be one cause, but I would also suggest high PO4 levels (you didn't give any readings), since phospates (PO4) inhibit calcification.

You say your skimmer is working well, but is it removing enough? (e.g. a Seaclone in a 200 gal tank would almost be a sure bet for cyano)
The effluent of your calcium reactor and Kalkwasser precipitate phosphates as calcium phosphate on contact, take advantage of it.

For example, one of the easiest and fastest ways to drop PO4 levels (by precipitation) is to drip Kalkwasser into the venturi intake of the skimmer, where precipitated calcium phosphate will be removed with the skimmate.

One of the main causes of cyanobacteria blooms is high levels of nutrients, so I would look for the cause there first:

-overfeeding? overstocked?
-skimmer good enough? (efficient enough, properly sized?)
-waterchanges: periodic and large enough? (this of course lowers the nutrient concentration by dilution with new unpoluted water)
-tank circulation good enough? cyanobacteria likes calm areas
-is it time to exchange bulbs? old bulbs shift in color spectrum, and some favor cyanobacteria

I suggest:
Lower your nutrients levels (see above), check your PO4 level, and start siphoning the cyanobateria out (it peels very easily, like a film)
DON'T use chemicals to kill cyanobateria, you would fight the result, but not the cause. Plus by killing the cyano, you would only increase the nutrient level in the tank, making things worse (like using gasoline to fight fire, instead of water), unless you siphon it all out to prevent that.

Joaco

Joaco,
Thanks for the detailed responce. I really appreciate all your help.
I re-tested all of my water paramaters tonight, they go as followed:
Po4- 0
Cal- 500
alk-7
ph-7.7
nitrate-.10
amm-.10
nitrite-0
I have a Euro Reef es skimmer, said it could handle a 175 gallon tank. I have a 150 gallon.
The bulbs are new this year...both 250w ushio, and the 2-130w actinics.
For my circulation i have, 3 maxjet-1200, and my return from my sump is Mag1800. I would hope it is enough..

Maybe this info will help alittle better?
Thanks
Matt

[Joaco]

Joaco,
Thanks for the detailed responce. I really appreciate all your help.

Sure thing Matt, that's what we are here for

Cal- 500

Are you sure on that reading? as far as I know, Ca saturates before and the excess precipitates as calcium carbonate (you can see that for example when you overdose Kalkwasser, you see the calcium hidroxide precipitating on contact with the water, causing an effect know as 'snow storm')

alk-7

Seems pretty low considering you have a Ca reactor

ph-7.7

ALARM! should not be below 8.0, ideal would be 8.3

My first guess, considering your low alkalinity and low pH, would be that your Ca reactor is blowing excess CO2 into the tank, lowering the pH and depleting buffer capacity.
To check on that fast and easy, take a cup of water from the tank, and put an airstone connected to an airpump in it, to aereate the water heavily.
If the pH level of that water is higher after the aereation, you have excess CO2 that was blown off, and you should check on the CO2 and your main tank.

Right now, your low pH is your PRIORITY. That would also explain why your coralline algae is falling off. You use CO2 in your Ca reactor to dissolve calcareous media, but if the pH in the tank is also low, your coralline suffers from the same effect.

Please check on the pH issue so that we can resolve it fast. Given this situation, the rest (cyano etc) is secondary right now.

Joaco

[Joaco]

Cal. 300 alttile low, need to refill my C02 for the C.R.
alk-12
ph 8.3
amm 0

There IS something going on in there, your nice alk and pH readings went down from 12 to 7 (alk) and from 8.3 to 7.7 (pH), and you have an ammonia trace.

My first bet again, would be excess CO2 from the reactor.
Do you have the output of the reactor effluent submerged in the sump, or does it drip from above, to allow excess CO2 to blow off in the air, instead of underwater?
What's the pH level at the reactor output?

The Ca reading from 300 to 500 puzzles me a bit right now, I'm not sure what could be causing the false 500 reading, will have to check on that. But I'm sure it's a false reading.

Joaco

[Tervill]

Joaca,

I was wondering if you could provide a bit more information on the "snow storm" effect when adding calcium hydroxide. That happens to my tank, but I'm not sure why . Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, I am in the process of setting up a 90 gal. tank. At the LFS, they have these "new" type of lights called hydroponics. Each bulb puts out 125 W, and the bulbs don't get hot at all. You can literally place your hand on the bulb and they stay totally cool . Have you ever heard about these? I'm kinda skeptical about spending $125.00 ea on bulbs that I haven't heard of anyone using before. Thanks for any help.

Terry

[Poseidon]

Cool pic of the slime Matt!!!

did u use Bobs Camera?

sounds like u've got some good info above, I would do a big ol water change... Like 30-40 gallons!!!, u can borrow my bucket if u need it.

talk to ya Later!!!


Mike

[Joaco]

I was wondering if you could provide a bit more information on the "snow storm" effect when adding calcium hydroxide. That happens to my tank, but I'm not sure why . Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry about the delayed reply, my wife is expecting our second daughter to be born anytime during the next 2 weeks now. That keeps very me busy

In a nutshell, it happens either when you add calcium hydroxide too fast (concentrated high pH area) ot too much (the water is already saturated, so that the excess precipitates as calcium carbonate)

The main problem with the precipitating calcium carbonate (the snowstorm) is not that it irritates corals, etc, the real problem is that it starts a chain reaction in which carbonates precipitate, thus affecting the tank alkalinity level.
You cannot stop a snowstorm chain reaction once it starts, it stops by itself once carbonate depletion ends. Doing a waterchange for example, will make things worse, since you would be feeding the chain reaction with fresh carbonates.

For the above reasons you also avoid dripping the precipitate of your Kalkwasser preparation (calcium hydroxide) and only drip the clear saturated solution, you avoid dripping the calcium carbonate, which would start a chain reaction in the main tank (as it finds fresh carbonates there)

At the LFS, they have these "new" type of lights called hydroponics. Each bulb puts out 125 W, and the bulbs don't get hot at all. You can literally place your hand on the bulb and they stay totally cool . Have you ever heard about these? I'm kinda skeptical about spending $125.00 ea on bulbs that I haven't heard of anyone using before.

Hydroponics is, VERY simply stated, growing plants in water instead of soil. If there is a lamp brand using that name, I don't know it, sorry.

Your best bet would be ask about it in our lighting forum:

http://www.reefland.com/forum/lighting/

some products used in hydroponics (such as LumenArc III reflectors for example) are also used by some in reefkeeping, but I thought they also use MHs in hydroponics...so I wouldn't know exactly what kind of lamps your LFS is talking about.

Joaco

[Tervill]

Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. All the best to you and your new (future) family member.

Terry

[Joaco]

Thanks for the info! Much appreciated.

You are most welcome. If you are interested in going much deeper into the subjects of calcium, alkalinity and limewater (Kalkwasser), I recommend reading some of Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley excellent articles:

Calcium:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2002/chem.htm

Calcium and Alkalinity:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-0...ture/index.htm

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

The Degradation of Limewater in Air:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-0...ture/index.htm

Metals In Limewater:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2003/chem.htm

All the best to you and your new (future) family member.

Terry

Thank you!

Joaco