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Novice researching a 75g setup... |
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#1 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5
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I am new to the aquatic world, and have been researching saltwater aquariums for the past couple of weeks. I have come across numerous designs and tank setups through my research, however have very little knowledge of the subject other than what I've learned from books I recently bought. These books are not always clear to me however, and I have come to this forum for some help.
First off, I'm just doing some very general/preliminary research, so some of the questions I ask may not be relevant for a novice at this stage, but are nevertheless questions I would like answered so I can begin to plan my project. As far as what I want, this is what I know so far. 1) I would like a 75 gallon aquarium with apprx. the following dimensions; 48"L x 18"D x 20"H. 2) As far as the filtration and equipment go, I do not want it to be visible inside the tank. 3) Regarding fish and corals, well I just have a couple examples of what I would like, which I describe in more detail below. I plan to build a custom cabinet around the aquarium to give it a built-in look. I don't really know where to start with my questions since I have so many, but I've attached a couple pictures of tanks that I would like to follow as examples, but could you some information on their setups (ie. what type of rocks and corals are used) from what can best be seen from the pictures. Beginning with the first picture: - From what you can tell, besides the fish what type of corals, etc. are used in the tank? - What type of equipment would you assume is used in a tank like this? - The lighting is very important to me, and I really like the color of the lighting on this tank? For a 75g setup, what equipment would I need to achieve these kind of results in terms of color? And the questions remain the same for the second photo: - From what you can tell, besides the fish what type of corals, etc. are used in the tank? - What type of equipment would you assume is used in a tank like this? - The lighting is very important to me, and I really like the color of the lighting on this tank? For a 75g setup, what equipment would I need to achieve these kind of results in terms of color? And I'll end with this final quesiton. I realize the aquarium and equipment will heavily influnce the cabinet design, but from what I have pictured so far, I will have empty storage space on both sides of the aquarium, but not on the bottom. Will this type of setup limit my choice of equipment I can run? Approx. how much space would you allow on either side of a 75g aquarium for equipment? What about in back of the aquarium? Could I have the tank flush with the back wall of the cabinet if I'm running the the equipment from the sides? Ok, I'll stop there for now. I really appreciate any light this forum can shed on my quesitons. Thanks in advance. |
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#2 | |||||||||||
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 19,412
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Hi nrgy, welcome to Reefland!
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As far as lighting goes, see my comments above. Quote:
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Good luck,
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Ninong |
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#3 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5
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Thank you for the very informative reply. The two books I have are "The simple guide to Marine Aquariums" which I've found fairly helpful, and a small book titled "Saltwater Aquarium."
So the pictures I posted were only of dead corals/decorations, that explains the lack of color. Going with a reef tank or a setup dedicated more towards fish is another interesting question. I originally intended to have a tank setup with the emphasis being on the fish, however after seeing some of the reefs on this forum, especially the picture of the Japanese square tank, I am questioning my position. I guess this leads me to a few other questions: - A reef setup would generally cost more than a fish only tank like the ones above, correct? - I assume a fish only tank would require less maintenance and potential problem solving? (ie. diseases) - Could there be a compromise? In other words, could I have a partial reef tank with some of the fish I want? Some fish that I am interested in would be possibly be a blue tang, a Pakistan butterfly, and a school of damsels looks very pleasing as well. Could you tell me a little more about the picture of the Japanese square tank you posted in one of your threads. I've attached it again as reference. In particular, some of the species of corals/inverts and the fish used in this display. The assortment of colors is stunning. Could I achieve a much smaller scale reef like this in a 75gallon tank, with perhaps the rock and corals taking as much space as shown in the second picture I attached at the beginning of my thread, titled "fish_3.jpg", in proportion to a 75 gallon tank of course. Or would this simply be too overwhelming of a task? Regardless of the amount of live coral, I assume it's either all or nothing in regards to equipment, maintenance and care for either a complete reef setup, or partial. Would this be an accurate statement? Thanks again! I am definately getting a much clearer picture as far as the different directions I can take. |
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#4 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 19,412
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nrgy,
The first thing you need to do is invest in a couple of books to give yourself sufficient background to make an intelligent choice in this matter. I recommend John Tullock's Natural Reef Aquariums as a first read followed by Robert Fenner's The Conscientious Marine Aquarist followed by Eric Borneman's Aquarium Corals. Unfortunately there just isn't any other way to get a feel for what you really want to do without doing a lot of reading first. Browsing the boards will give you some idea but you will still have a lot of gaps in your basic knowledge unless you study up on it before you take the plunge. You can start out gradually, which is always the best way, with an aquarium with live rock, a few fish and a few easy soft corals. Then after 6 months to a year you can expand into the more difficult corals. Most folks who start out with a fish-only aquarium eventually switch to a reef tank. The Japanese tank in that picture is typical of the Japanese view of reef tank husbandry: Aesthetically pleasing with pristine tank walls and a careful consideration of balance of shapes and colors. It is mostly soft corals and anemones. The tank itself is extremely expensive. It is custom made by J. P. Farm and retails for more than $5,000 for just the tank itself. You could probably purchase a very nice Starphire glass tank of similar dimensions for less than $1500.
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Ninong |
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#5 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 19,412
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A Blue Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus) really requires a tank larger than 75 gallons. I realize that people put them in smallish tanks but I think they are better left for tanks of at least 180 gallons.
A Pakistani Butterflyfish (Chaetodon collare) is not appropriate for a reef tank because it's natural diet consists of coral polyps. With only a few exceptions, most butterflyfishes are not suitable for reef tanks. I am not a fan of damsels unless you are thinking of something like Chromis viridis, which is a mild mannered damsel that does well in reef tanks. If you want a school, you would need at least 5 individuals but 7 would be better. This all depends on the size of your aquarium and whether you are willing to use up a lot of your available fishy bioload on this one species. They school naturally in the wild and will sometimes school in reeftanks. It all depends on the other fish in the tank. If there are no fish that they consider threatening, they will abandon their natural schooling behavior. Schooling is a defensive behavior.
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Ninong |
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#6 | ||
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Owner
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Bardstown, KY
Posts: 12,999
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Hi nrgy and Welcome to Reefland!
First of all I will start by supplying a link to a thread I have running where I document the planning, set-up and trials and tribulations of my 75 gal reef tank: Documenting My New Tank! Quote:
Other equipment is pretty much the same for reef tanks and fish-only tanks; Protein Skimmers, heaters, water movement, etc. The largest cost difference will be in the lights and if you desired a calium reactor which is not necessary. Quote:
Regards, Scott Z. |
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#7 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5
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I took up some of your advice and began reading a few more books about marine aquariums, and have come to the conclusion that I will setup a reef tank, however I will keep the rock base, corals, and inverts small in proportion to the amount of open water for fish. Regarding the species of fish, I will leave this to last.
It seems no matter how much I read, I still can't sift through all the different types/models of pumps, skimmers, filtration devices, etc., but want to start jotting something down on paper. I could use some suggestions on equipment for an aquarium that won't be using a sump, rather will have space for equipment on both sides. 1) Aquarium I orginally planned on a 100-120g, however I don't think I will be able to make this happen due to space restrictions, and will most likely settle for a 75g. I will probably go with Acrylic, however the Starphire sounds really nice. Is there only one source for Starphire glass tanks online? Any suggestions as to what type of options I would need for a tank, keeping in mind I want as little equipment visible as possible. For example, would I need a corner overflow? And what type of black backing is available? 2) Protein Skimmer It sounds like I'll need a hang on type. Any recommendations as to brand/model? From the forums I'm gathering a skimmer from Aqua-C or AquaMedic would be a good choice. 3) Mechanical Filtration Again, what brand/model? I would assume the cansiter is the way to go. 4) Water circulation Open to any suggetions. Brand/model...how many pumps, etc. 5) Lighting I'm leaning towards VHO fluorescent, using perhaps 2 VHO white and 2 actinic. Not sure, however, if this would meet the lighting requirements. 6) Pumps What and how many will I need to operate certain equipment. These are my biggest quetion marks as of now. I'm hoping to take some steps forward in the next couple of weeks as far as equipment purchases, but don't want to make any decisions blindly. Once again I appreciate everyone's input. |
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#8 | |||||||||
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Owner
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Bardstown, KY
Posts: 12,999
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In your orginal post, you mention that you are building a custom stand for a built in look however you don't plan to use a sump. The space that you have beside the aquarium for equipment means nothing without a sump as adding external equipment such as protein skimmers, calcium reactors and having a place to put heaters is impossible without some type of external container. I would strongly suggest using a sump, even if it has to go on the side of the tank, which gives you many more options and will allow you to keep the amount of equipment inside the display to a bare minumum. Quote:
Acrylic is fine but be aware that extra precaution will have to be used to not scratch the acrylic. Starphires are really nice, our very own Ninong has a great Starphire tank that he got from Inter-American Pet Supply. He could give you more details regarding Starphire; nothing available online as far as I know.Quote:
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![]() Regards, Scott Z. |
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#9 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5
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I do see the advantages of using a sump, however I did not think I could use one since I would not be able to place anything below the aquarium. From what I understood, water needed to drain into the sump. I assume if the sump is not below the water level of the tank water will need to be pumped into the sump?
I will need to read up more on sumps, but would this be an example of something I would need. It's on the bottom of the page, called the Cyclone Bio-filter. They list it under wet/dry filters, is this the same as a sump system? Here's the link: http://www.marinedepot.com/a_ps_cpr_sr_info.asp?CartId= I've see so many different configurations for sumps, and wondered if there are any pre-configured setups to choose from. What about plumbing for the tank? Would I need any holes drilled? Or a hang-on overflow, internal overflow? So many questions ![]() |
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#10 | |
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Moderator
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Great thread by the way, the use of a "wet Dry" filter in a reef is losing favor and being replaced by "live filtration" as Scott has mentioned. Live Rock is not actually alive itself, rather it contains so many forms of life that the rock seems to be alive... These tiny critters are what you want, Nitrosoma's Nitrobacter are 2 types of bacteria that are ESsENTIAL to our tanks. Also there are other critters used to keep the many many forms of Algae away, from snails to Conchs to Starfish some even use hermit Crabs and other forms of Crabs themselves. ( I stay away from the "clawed creatures" myself...) Keep searching I use a CPR overflow I think it is Model 102 that hangs on the side of my 135, and yes the Sump is below the tank. I also use a MAG 12 for a return and to Drive my Protein Skimmer (nautalis 24) those are the only 2 "filters" I have.. The rock and critters take care of the rest for me... Ninong and Reefland are 2 VERY good sources of info, make sure to read the documentaries that both have going on this board. those threads are JEWELS and contain ALOT of great info from start to finish and continuing to this day... 1 thing that is obvious to all who are already addicted that some newbies miss is...... BIGGER IS BETTER !!!! The more volume you have the slower things change in the tank which is very very good for the hobbyist so for the same footprint as a 70-75 you could get a 90 or maybe even 110... just more height which will require more light but the extra volume really helps YOU maintain the tank easier. The more you can keep your hands OUT the better the tank will be. Think aftershave or windex in a small water box!!! I have about 150 maybe more snails and I think I need more so the more the tank takes care of itself the better the chances of success. (of course you DO HAVE TO DO those water changes monthly at least!!!)KEEP READING and posting the answers will all come in time, and 1 day a light bulb goes on in your head and you think you have the hobby mastered, then the next day a FUSE blows... back to reading in the dark!! Thats what makes this Hobby so much fun, the upgrades are endless and the methods seem to change often but we all have the same goal, we all take different roads to get there!!! Mike |
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#11 | |
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Owner
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Bardstown, KY
Posts: 12,999
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As far as the item you mentioned at Marine Depot, this is a "sump" that already has other filkters in it such as the skimmer and a NOT needed bio-filter (the media on the right side). not only is it not needed but not recommended as it can lead to excess nutrients in the system. For a sump what you need is a box (whatever size you can fit) with some baffles in it to remove micro bubbles (a seach for baffle will result in lots of reading for you). In this (or attached to) you can get your protein skimmer going and anything else you might want. If you wanted to go with something that was already to go with all the equipment needed look at www.lifereef.com or www.myreefcreations.com. For plumbing, loos for a reef ready tank if you getting a pre-fabricated tank and if not, any manufacturer will know what your talking about when you mention reef ready. The tank should have at least 1 hole drilled behind an overflow box for the drain and 1 hole for the return. The size of the holes will be dependant on how much water you are going to flow and that will be ultimately dependant on what kind of corals you plan, however 10-15 times the total tank volume is a good starting point for how many gallons per hour of circulation you want. Regards, Scott Z. |
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#12 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5
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What a great resource Reefland is! I will make a sump work for my application, and will probably use this as a starting point for making my first equipment purchase.
Regarding the tank, the local fish stores have several acrylic tanks available, and none with any options such as internal overflows. In fact, I think I would prefer just to use a hang-on overflow, as this shouldn't be a very major distraction from what I can tell. If I went with one of the Lifereef sumps such as the Compact Berlin Filter, this would pretty much cover my filtration equipment needs (besides live rock, etc), correct? My next question is price. At $659 for the setup, this seems pretty steep for someone new to the hobby. Would one expect to pay this much if they bought the parts separately, as opposed to a ready-to-go system? For example, could I put together a sump filtration system for less if I bought a sump, protein skimmer, etc. individually? On the other hand, it seems like there are a lot of miscellaneous parts that go into a sump filtration system, and my be a hassle for a novice to assemble. Would this be accurate? It sounds like from what I've read on the boards that LifeReef is a fairly expensive brand, are there other less expensive options for sumps with all the equipment? Lastly, I heard mentioned that the return can be used as circulation. If there is not a hole drilled in the aquarium, then I assume the return flow is sent through a pipe that bends up and over the aquarium side. For circulation, does it matter how the water is directed (ie. straight down), or is a return that pushes water out a hole from the side of an aquarium optimal? |
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#13 | ||||||
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Owner
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Bardstown, KY
Posts: 12,999
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Also as mentioned they can be troublesome to start as you have to get the siphon started and then get the pump running; with a drilled tank all you have to do is add the water and turn on the pump, the drain to the sump will start automatically. Here is a link to the AGA site with a neat little animated image of how the internal overflow basically works, pardon me if you are already clear on this:http://www.all-glass.com/products/aq...flo_demo.shtml Bottom line my personal opinion is to go with a drilled, reef ready tank. I have went both ways and the drilled tank is much easier. Quote:
Most people choose to go out on their own due to the cost of his systems though. My set-up for example is a standard 20 gallon tank with 3 plexiglass baffles siliconed inside it. I have my heaters in there and my skimmer. The cost of the standard 20 gallon tank at a yard yard sale was $20 (it came with a bunch of other freshwater equipment and I bought it as a kit), the material for the baffles was probably $20 and then the price of my skimmer which I am waiting on a new MR-1 from My Reef Creations. Of course I have my return pump as well and all together the cost is a bit less than the Life Reef systems but no more difficult to put together. The other advantage is a larger choice of equipment; buying the complete system you are forced to get the Life Reef skimmer and the standard RIO pumps that come with the system which may not be a good choice for your particular systems (and RIO's are not preferred amungst hobbyist anyway). Quote:
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Man I love talking about this stuff. ![]() Regard,s Scott Z. |
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#14 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 45
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Hi nrgy,
I'm quite new to the hobby as well, and I just got my 90 g up and running. It has already cycled, live rock has been added, and I'm just in the process of transfering my fish from my 30 g to the 90 g. As far as the sump goes, I agree with Scott. I had a hole drilled in my tank to fit a 1" bulkhead. The sump that I use is just a 15g AGA. I went to the local Home Depot and purchased some 1/4 acrylic, cut it to the right sizes, and siliconed them into the sump tank. The total cost of the sump cost me about $50.00 (canadian). It works great. My 30g did not have a sump, and let me tell you, the 90g with the sump is 100 times better as far circulation, filtering, hidding heaters, etc... I'm glad to hear that you are going with the sump. And yes, this is a GREAT site for any kind of information you require. If you follow Scott's thread as well as Ninong's thread (picture of Ninong's tank in progress) as I did, you will learn a tremendous amount of info. Good luck with everything, and welcome to the wonderful world of reefkeeping! Regards, Terry |
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