[nrgy]

I am new to the aquatic world, and have been researching saltwater aquariums for the past couple of weeks. I have come across numerous designs and tank setups through my research, however have very little knowledge of the subject other than what I've learned from books I recently bought. These books are not always clear to me however, and I have come to this forum for some help.

First off, I'm just doing some very general/preliminary research, so some of the questions I ask may not be relevant for a novice at this stage, but are nevertheless questions I would like answered so I can begin to plan my project.

As far as what I want, this is what I know so far.

1) I would like a 75 gallon aquarium with apprx. the following dimensions; 48"L x 18"D x 20"H.

2) As far as the filtration and equipment go, I do not want it to be visible inside the tank.

3) Regarding fish and corals, well I just have a couple examples of what I would like, which I describe in more detail below.

I plan to build a custom cabinet around the aquarium to give it a built-in look.

I don't really know where to start with my questions since I have so many, but I've attached a couple pictures of tanks that I would like to follow as examples, but could you some information on their setups (ie. what type of rocks and corals are used) from what can best be seen from the pictures.

Beginning with the first picture:

- From what you can tell, besides the fish what type of corals, etc. are used in the tank?

- What type of equipment would you assume is used in a tank like this?

- The lighting is very important to me, and I really like the color of the lighting on this tank? For a 75g setup, what equipment would I need to achieve these kind of results in terms of color?

And the questions remain the same for the second photo:

- From what you can tell, besides the fish what type of corals, etc. are used in the tank?

- What type of equipment would you assume is used in a tank like this?

- The lighting is very important to me, and I really like the color of the lighting on this tank? For a 75g setup, what equipment would I need to achieve these kind of results in terms of color?


And I'll end with this final quesiton. I realize the aquarium and equipment will heavily influnce the cabinet design, but from what I have pictured so far, I will have empty storage space on both sides of the aquarium, but not on the bottom. Will this type of setup limit my choice of equipment I can run?

Approx. how much space would you allow on either side of a 75g aquarium for equipment? What about in back of the aquarium? Could I have the tank flush with the back wall of the cabinet if I'm running the the equipment from the sides?

Ok, I'll stop there for now. I really appreciate any light this forum can shed on my quesitons. Thanks in advance.

[Ninong]

Hi nrgy, welcome to Reefland!

Originally Posted by nrgy

1) I would like a 75 gallon aquarium with apprx. the following dimensions; 48"L x 18"D x 20"H.

That's a good minimum size for an aquarium and it's easy to equip but I strongly suggest that you consider going as large as 120-gallons (48x24x24) as this size would cost almost the same to equip.

Originally Posted by nrgy

2) As far as the filtration and equipment go, I do not want it to be visible inside the tank.

This can be done. Filtration equipment usually goes in a cabinet under the aquarium. There are things that you can use for water circulation in place of powerheads that are not visible unless you remove the canopy.

Originally Posted by nrgy

Beginning with the first picture:

- From what you can tell, besides the fish what type of corals, etc. are used in the tank?

That is a fish-only tank with decorations (dead coral skeletons).

Originally Posted by nrgy

- What type of equipment would you assume is used in a tank like this?

That tank is several hundred gallons so there is quite a bit of equipment inside the cabinet. I have no idea what they used because I have never been able to understand why people would continue to set up tanks like that now that live corals can be kept with relative ease.

Originally Posted by nrgy

- The lighting is very important to me, and I really like the color of the lighting on this tank? For a 75g setup, what equipment would I need to achieve these kind of results in terms of color?

On a tank like that the lighting is usually just fluorescent lighting, either VHO (very high output) or NO (normal output). Other possibilities would include PC (power compact fluorescent) or T5 HO (high output) fluorescent. In some rare cases they might even use metal halide lighting but that would be rare for that sort of a tank. The lighting is really just for "looks" in a setup like this.

Originally Posted by nrgy

And the questions remain the same for the second photo:

- From what you can tell, besides the fish what type of corals, etc. are used in the tank?

- What type of equipment would you assume is used in a tank like this?

- The lighting is very important to me, and I really like the color of the lighting on this tank? For a 75g setup, what equipment would I need to achieve these kind of results in terms of color?

This is another fish-only tank with decorations -- artificial corals. You can tell this by the way they are the exact same shapes and sizes and the way they are arranged. Even with my lousy eyesight, I do not think I see anything alive in that tank except the fish that are way too large for the tank. Except for the one large Caribbean angelfish, the other fish all require an extremely large tank, much larger than the one they are in. The angel in that picture would do just fine in tanks of at least 300 gallons that do not contain live corals. Most angelfish will eat coral polyps and therefore are not good choices for reef tanks.

As far as lighting goes, see my comments above.

Originally Posted by nrgy

And I'll end with this final quesiton. I realize the aquarium and equipment will heavily influnce the cabinet design, but from what I have pictured so far, I will have empty storage space on both sides of the aquarium, but not on the bottom. Will this type of setup limit my choice of equipment I can run?

Yes, it will severely limit your choice of equipment. It would mean that you would be running without a sump. It can be done but there are many advantages to using a sump. You would need to use a hang-on foam fractionator (protein skimmer) mounted either on the side or the back of the aquarium. This piece of equipment would require a space of approximately 10"x10" or more by 24" tall or more. You would also need space for pumps, etc. Lighting ballasts would require more space unless they are mounted inside the canopy and/or luminaire.

Originally Posted by nrgy

Approx. how much space would you allow on either side of a 75g aquarium for equipment?

I would allow at least 12" on either side for equipment if you are going to have nothing under the tank at all.

Originally Posted by nrgy

What about in back of the aquarium?

This depends on where you will be mounting the skimmer. If you mount the skimmer on the side of the aquarium then you could get by with as little as 6" of space behind the aquarium. If you intend to mount the skimmer on the back of the aquarium, then you will need at least 12" behind the aquarium. In an ideal setup you would want to have access to all sides of the aquarium. That would require a minimum of at least 24" behind the aquarium. Few people have space to do that however, especially for a small aquarium such as a 75-gallon.

Originally Posted by nrgy

Could I have the tank flush with the back wall of the cabinet if I'm running the the equipment from the sides?

My 120-gal tank is flush with the back wall of the cabinet and I am running all of my plumbing lines and electrical cords up both sides of the aquarium with the equipment in a cabinet beneath the aquarium. It would be so much easier if I had access on all sides but it can be done. I can tell you right now that it is quite frustrating when your only access is from the front, but it can be done.

Originally Posted by nrgy

Ok, I'll stop there for now. I really appreciate any light this forum can shed on my quesitons. Thanks in advance.

Which books do you have already? Do a bit more reading and browsing the boards so that you will have a good idea of what you want. If you really want just a fish-only tank with artificial decorations, that can be done but if you want a reef tank, it's an entirely different set of requirements, especially in the area of lighting.

Good luck,

[nrgy]

Thank you for the very informative reply. The two books I have are "The simple guide to Marine Aquariums" which I've found fairly helpful, and a small book titled "Saltwater Aquarium."

So the pictures I posted were only of dead corals/decorations, that explains the lack of color. Going with a reef tank or a setup dedicated more towards fish is another interesting question. I originally intended to have a tank setup with the emphasis being on the fish, however after seeing some of the reefs on this forum, especially the picture of the Japanese square tank, I am questioning my position.

I guess this leads me to a few other questions:

- A reef setup would generally cost more than a fish only tank like the ones above, correct?

- I assume a fish only tank would require less maintenance and potential problem solving? (ie. diseases)

- Could there be a compromise? In other words, could I have a partial reef tank with some of the fish I want? Some fish that I am interested in would be possibly be a blue tang, a Pakistan butterfly, and a school of damsels looks very pleasing as well.

Could you tell me a little more about the picture of the Japanese square tank you posted in one of your threads. I've attached it again as reference. In particular, some of the species of corals/inverts and the fish used in this display.

The assortment of colors is stunning. Could I achieve a much smaller scale reef like this in a 75gallon tank, with perhaps the rock and corals taking as much space as shown in the second picture I attached at the beginning of my thread, titled "fish_3.jpg", in proportion to a 75 gallon tank of course. Or would this simply be too overwhelming of a task?

Regardless of the amount of live coral, I assume it's either all or nothing in regards to equipment, maintenance and care for either a complete reef setup, or partial. Would this be an accurate statement?

Thanks again! I am definately getting a much clearer picture as far as the different directions I can take.

[Ninong]

nrgy,

The first thing you need to do is invest in a couple of books to give yourself sufficient background to make an intelligent choice in this matter. I recommend John Tullock's Natural Reef Aquariums as a first read followed by Robert Fenner's The Conscientious Marine Aquarist followed by Eric Borneman's Aquarium Corals.

Unfortunately there just isn't any other way to get a feel for what you really want to do without doing a lot of reading first. Browsing the boards will give you some idea but you will still have a lot of gaps in your basic knowledge unless you study up on it before you take the plunge.

You can start out gradually, which is always the best way, with an aquarium with live rock, a few fish and a few easy soft corals. Then after 6 months to a year you can expand into the more difficult corals. Most folks who start out with a fish-only aquarium eventually switch to a reef tank.

The Japanese tank in that picture is typical of the Japanese view of reef tank husbandry: Aesthetically pleasing with pristine tank walls and a careful consideration of balance of shapes and colors. It is mostly soft corals and anemones. The tank itself is extremely expensive. It is custom made by J. P. Farm and retails for more than $5,000 for just the tank itself. You could probably purchase a very nice Starphire glass tank of similar dimensions for less than $1500.

[Ninong]

A Blue Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus) really requires a tank larger than 75 gallons. I realize that people put them in smallish tanks but I think they are better left for tanks of at least 180 gallons.

A Pakistani Butterflyfish (Chaetodon collare) is not appropriate for a reef tank because it's natural diet consists of coral polyps. With only a few exceptions, most butterflyfishes are not suitable for reef tanks.

I am not a fan of damsels unless you are thinking of something like Chromis viridis, which is a mild mannered damsel that does well in reef tanks. If you want a school, you would need at least 5 individuals but 7 would be better. This all depends on the size of your aquarium and whether you are willing to use up a lot of your available fishy bioload on this one species. They school naturally in the wild and will sometimes school in reeftanks. It all depends on the other fish in the tank. If there are no fish that they consider threatening, they will abandon their natural schooling behavior. Schooling is a defensive behavior.

[Reefland]

Hi nrgy and Welcome to Reefland!

First of all I will start by supplying a link to a thread I have running where I document the planning, set-up and trials and tribulations of my 75 gal reef tank:
Documenting My New Tank!

- A reef setup would generally cost more than a fish only tank like the ones above, correct?

That is correct for the most part. The more expensive required piece for a reef tank is the lighting and I say for the most part because some people do get high end lights for their fish-only aquariums, although not required. As Ninong has mentioned, intense lights are needed to maintain the health of the corals. Intense light can be the lights mentioned, T5 HO (high output), VHO (very high output), PC's (power compact) or best of all MH (metal halide). The choice of lighting depends greatly on what kind of corals you would like to keep and the books Ninong mentioned will help you with that selection.

Other equipment is pretty much the same for reef tanks and fish-only tanks; Protein Skimmers, heaters, water movement, etc. The largest cost difference will be in the lights and if you desired a calium reactor which is not necessary.

- I assume a fish only tank would require less maintenance and potential problem solving? (ie. diseases)

Both styles are going to require maintenance and/or problem solving. When it comes to diseases, I think more time and effort is spent with fish and fish diseases are more curable than corals; typically when a coral starts doing bad there isn't a whole lot that can be done for it as where treating a fish has many options. Both styles are going to require water changes, glass cleaning and all of that fun stuff.

Regards,
Scott Z.

[nrgy]

I took up some of your advice and began reading a few more books about marine aquariums, and have come to the conclusion that I will setup a reef tank, however I will keep the rock base, corals, and inverts small in proportion to the amount of open water for fish. Regarding the species of fish, I will leave this to last.

It seems no matter how much I read, I still can't sift through all the different types/models of pumps, skimmers, filtration devices, etc., but want to start jotting something down on paper. I could use some suggestions on equipment for an aquarium that won't be using a sump, rather will have space for equipment on both sides.

1) Aquarium
I orginally planned on a 100-120g, however I don't think I will be able to make this happen due to space restrictions, and will most likely settle for a 75g. I will probably go with Acrylic, however the Starphire sounds really nice. Is there only one source for Starphire glass tanks online? Any suggestions as to what type of options I would need for a tank, keeping in mind I want as little equipment visible as possible. For example, would I need a corner overflow? And what type of black backing is available?

2) Protein Skimmer
It sounds like I'll need a hang on type. Any recommendations as to brand/model? From the forums I'm gathering a skimmer from Aqua-C or AquaMedic would be a good choice.

3) Mechanical Filtration
Again, what brand/model? I would assume the cansiter is the way to go.

4) Water circulation
Open to any suggetions. Brand/model...how many pumps, etc.

5) Lighting
I'm leaning towards VHO fluorescent, using perhaps 2 VHO white and 2 actinic. Not sure, however, if this would meet the lighting requirements.

6) Pumps
What and how many will I need to operate certain equipment.

These are my biggest quetion marks as of now. I'm hoping to take some steps forward in the next couple of weeks as far as equipment purchases, but don't want to make any decisions blindly. Once again I appreciate everyone's input.

[Reefland]

I took up some of your advice and began reading a few more books about marine aquariums, and have come to the conclusion that I will setup a reef tank, however I will keep the rock base, corals, and inverts small in proportion to the amount of open water for fish. Regarding the species of fish, I will leave this to last.

Very glad to hear that you are researching everything, doing plenty of reading and asking the questions.

It seems no matter how much I read, I still can't sift through all the different types/models of pumps, skimmers, filtration devices, etc., but want to start jotting something down on paper. I could use some suggestions on equipment for an aquarium that won't be using a sump, rather will have space for equipment on both sides.

Yeah there are a lot of different options available and wiull read and hear about everyone's personal preference. The important thing is to make sure what you get suits the need for your system in regards to space, performace and budget.

In your orginal post, you mention that you are building a custom stand for a built in look however you don't plan to use a sump. The space that you have beside the aquarium for equipment means nothing without a sump as adding external equipment such as protein skimmers, calcium reactors and having a place to put heaters is impossible without some type of external container. I would strongly suggest using a sump, even if it has to go on the side of the tank, which gives you many more options and will allow you to keep the amount of equipment inside the display to a bare minumum.

1) Aquarium
I orginally planned on a 100-120g, however I don't think I will be able to make this happen due to space restrictions, and will most likely settle for a 75g. I will probably go with Acrylic, however the Starphire sounds really nice. Is there only one source for Starphire glass tanks online? Any suggestions as to what type of options I would need for a tank, keeping in mind I want as little equipment visible as possible. For example, would I need a corner overflow? And what type of black backing is available?

A 75 gallong reef ready tank is a great starting size. Acrylic is fine but be aware that extra precaution will have to be used to not scratch the acrylic. Starphires are really nice, our very own Ninong has a great Starphire tank that he got from Inter-American Pet Supply. He could give you more details regarding Starphire; nothing available online as far as I know.

2) Protein Skimmer
It sounds like I'll need a hang on type. Any recommendations as to brand/model? From the forums I'm gathering a skimmer from Aqua-C or AquaMedic would be a good choice.

From my post above, using a sump increases your options and gives you the ability to add a powerful protein skimmer that will keep up with a 75 gallon tank. Both manufactures make nice skimmers but again to keep equipment minimal in the display you will want to stay away from a hang-on skimmer and go with something that can be used in or plumbed into the sump.

3) Mechanical Filtration
Again, what brand/model? I would assume the cansiter is the way to go.

Mechanical filtration like canisters are rarely used on reef tanks. Just stick with a protein skimmer and lots of live filtration; high quality live rock for sure!

4) Water circulation
Open to any suggetions. Brand/model...how many pumps, etc.

Boy this is a huge question. A lot of people are using Closed Loops to keep the amount of powerheads in the tank down. Do a search on them to read more info. If you use a sump a return pump will be required, which also provides water circulation and there are lots of options for this. Supreme Mag Drives, Iwaki's, Dolphins and GenX are common return pumps. The size will be determined on your overflow capacity and how much head pressure you will have to return through.

5) Lighting
I'm leaning towards VHO fluorescent, using perhaps 2 VHO white and 2 actinic. Not sure, however, if this would meet the lighting requirements.

VHO lights are very popular to sustain the colors and provide growth for Soft Corals and LPS corals and even a couple of the Montipora sp. SPS corals. I wouldn't put Acrpor Sp. SPS corals or clams under them although some do with success. Lighting choices should be determined by coral preferences.

6) Pumps
What and how many will I need to operate certain equipment.

That depends on teh equipment. Most manufacturers of equipment will recommend pumps that operate the equipment best. I would stick with their recommendations and only go with something different after getting their opinion.

These are my biggest quetion marks as of now. I'm hoping to take some steps forward in the next couple of weeks as far as equipment purchases, but don't want to make any decisions blindly. Once again I appreciate everyone's input.

Glad to be of any help that I can and again, very glad to see your reading and asking questions FIRST.

Regards,
Scott Z.

[nrgy]

I do see the advantages of using a sump, however I did not think I could use one since I would not be able to place anything below the aquarium. From what I understood, water needed to drain into the sump. I assume if the sump is not below the water level of the tank water will need to be pumped into the sump?

I will need to read up more on sumps, but would this be an example of something I would need. It's on the bottom of the page, called the Cyclone Bio-filter. They list it under wet/dry filters, is this the same as a sump system? Here's the link: http://www.marinedepot.com/a_ps_cpr_sr_info.asp?CartId=

I've see so many different configurations for sumps, and wondered if there are any pre-configured setups to choose from.

What about plumbing for the tank? Would I need any holes drilled? Or a hang-on overflow, internal overflow? So many questions

[Poseidon]

Originally Posted by nrgy

I will need to read up more on sumps, but would this be an example of something I would need. It's on the bottom of the page, called the Cyclone Bio-filter. They list it under wet/dry filters, is this the same as a sump system? Here's the link: http://www.marinedepot.com/a_ps_cpr_sr_info.asp?CartId=

I've see so many different configurations for sumps, and wondered if there are any pre-configured setups to choose from.

What about plumbing for the tank? Would I need any holes drilled? Or a hang-on overflow, internal overflow? So many questions

Well Kinda....

Great thread by the way, the use of a "wet Dry" filter in a reef is losing favor and being replaced by "live filtration" as Scott has mentioned. Live Rock is not actually alive itself, rather it contains so many forms of life that the rock seems to be alive... These tiny critters are what you want, Nitrosoma's Nitrobacter are 2 types of bacteria that are ESsENTIAL to our tanks.

Also there are other critters used to keep the many many forms of Algae away, from snails to Conchs to Starfish some even use hermit Crabs and other forms of Crabs themselves. ( I stay away from the "clawed creatures" myself...)

Keep searching I use a CPR overflow I think it is Model 102 that hangs on the side of my 135, and yes the Sump is below the tank. I also use a MAG 12 for a return and to Drive my Protein Skimmer (nautalis 24) those are the only 2 "filters" I have.. The rock and critters take care of the rest for me...

Ninong and Reefland are 2 VERY good sources of info, make sure to read the documentaries that both have going on this board. those threads are JEWELS and contain ALOT of great info from start to finish and continuing to this day...

1 thing that is obvious to all who are already addicted that some newbies miss is......

BIGGER IS BETTER !!!!

The more volume you have the slower things change in the tank which is very very good for the hobbyist so for the same footprint as a 70-75 you could get a 90 or maybe even 110... just more height which will require more light but the extra volume really helps YOU maintain the tank easier.

The more you can keep your hands OUT the better the tank will be. Think aftershave or windex in a small water box!!!

I have about 150 maybe more snails and I think I need more so the more the tank takes care of itself the better the chances of success. (of course you DO HAVE TO DO those water changes monthly at least!!!)

KEEP READING and posting the answers will all come in time, and 1 day a light bulb goes on in your head and you think you have the hobby mastered, then the next day a FUSE blows... back to reading in the dark!!

Thats what makes this Hobby so much fun, the upgrades are endless and the methods seem to change often but we all have the same goal, we all take different roads to get there!!!

Mike

[Reefland]

Originally Posted by nrgy

I do see the advantages of using a sump, however I did not think I could use one since I would not be able to place anything below the aquarium. From what I understood, water needed to drain into the sump. I assume if the sump is not below the water level of the tank water will need to be pumped into the sump?

I will need to read up more on sumps, but would this be an example of something I would need. It's on the bottom of the page, called the Cyclone Bio-filter. They list it under wet/dry filters, is this the same as a sump system? Here's the link: http://www.marinedepot.com/a_ps_cpr_sr_info.asp?CartId=

I've see so many different configurations for sumps, and wondered if there are any pre-configured setups to choose from.

What about plumbing for the tank? Would I need any holes drilled? Or a hang-on overflow, internal overflow? So many questions

I am not very clear on your options as far as space but yes, a sump does need to be lower than the tank, whether it is directly under the tank or sitting to the side or behind makes no difference as long as it is lower. Bottom line is the sump needs to be positioned so the water can gravity feed to it, preferrably from an internal overflow (tank drilled) but if not possible an external overflow (Life Reef, CPR or other). I'm afraid that if you do not figure a way to get a sump into your system now, you will regret it later and kick yourself for not figuring one into the system. As mentioned, the sump allows an external spot for your heaters, provides water circulation via the return pump (reduces if not eliminates the powerheads in the display) and provides an easy way to get a powerful, dutiful protein skimmer hooked into the system. Other things such as Ca Reactors, auto top off systems, various controllers and testing equipment will require the use of a sump as well. These things are not required for your system now but I promise you as time goes on they are items you will consider and having a sump will be required for them.

As far as the item you mentioned at Marine Depot, this is a "sump" that already has other filkters in it such as the skimmer and a NOT needed bio-filter (the media on the right side). not only is it not needed but not recommended as it can lead to excess nutrients in the system. For a sump what you need is a box (whatever size you can fit) with some baffles in it to remove micro bubbles (a seach for baffle will result in lots of reading for you). In this (or attached to) you can get your protein skimmer going and anything else you might want. If you wanted to go with something that was already to go with all the equipment needed look at www.lifereef.com or www.myreefcreations.com.

For plumbing, loos for a reef ready tank if you getting a pre-fabricated tank and if not, any manufacturer will know what your talking about when you mention reef ready. The tank should have at least 1 hole drilled behind an overflow box for the drain and 1 hole for the return. The size of the holes will be dependant on how much water you are going to flow and that will be ultimately dependant on what kind of corals you plan, however 10-15 times the total tank volume is a good starting point for how many gallons per hour of circulation you want.

Regards,
Scott Z.

[nrgy]

What a great resource Reefland is! I will make a sump work for my application, and will probably use this as a starting point for making my first equipment purchase.

Regarding the tank, the local fish stores have several acrylic tanks available, and none with any options such as internal overflows. In fact, I think I would prefer just to use a hang-on overflow, as this shouldn't be a very major distraction from what I can tell.

If I went with one of the Lifereef sumps such as the Compact Berlin Filter, this would pretty much cover my filtration equipment needs (besides live rock, etc), correct? My next question is price. At $659 for the setup, this seems pretty steep for someone new to the hobby. Would one expect to pay this much if they bought the parts separately, as opposed to a ready-to-go system?

For example, could I put together a sump filtration system for less if I bought a sump, protein skimmer, etc. individually? On the other hand, it seems like there are a lot of miscellaneous parts that go into a sump filtration system, and my be a hassle for a novice to assemble. Would this be accurate?

It sounds like from what I've read on the boards that LifeReef is a fairly expensive brand, are there other less expensive options for sumps with all the equipment?

Lastly, I heard mentioned that the return can be used as circulation. If there is not a hole drilled in the aquarium, then I assume the return flow is sent through a pipe that bends up and over the aquarium side. For circulation, does it matter how the water is directed (ie. straight down), or is a return that pushes water out a hole from the side of an aquarium optimal?

[Reefland]

What a great resource Reefland is! I will make a sump work for my application, and will probably use this as a starting point for making my first equipment purchase.

Thanks for the compliment! There is loads on information and very fine people at Reefland.

egarding the tank, the local fish stores have several acrylic tanks available, and none with any options such as internal overflows. In fact, I think I would prefer just to use a hang-on overflow, as this shouldn't be a very major distraction from what I can tell.

Did the local shop build the tanks? If so they should be able to add an internal overflow for you. As with the sump, get something with an internal overflow now and don't kick yourself later after it's too late. Life Reef and CPR make fairly reliable external overflow boxes but they are not as simple to get started and don't provide the peace-of-mind that a drilled tank does. Note that external overflows work by siphoning water through U tubes into a box hanging outside of tank which has holes drilled and bulkheads for your plumbing to connect to. If for some reason the siphon breaks in the U tubes (power outage for instance) and then the return pump kicks back on, it is going to pump all of the water out of your sump and into the tank most likely causing it to overflow and flooding your floor. Now the manufacturers of these external overflows do everything they can to make them countinuous flow (the siphon will not break) but there is always a chance. Have a tank that is drilled with an overflow eliminates this possibility and let's us rest easy at night. Also as mentioned they can be troublesome to start as you have to get the siphon started and then get the pump running; with a drilled tank all you have to do is add the water and turn on the pump, the drain to the sump will start automatically. Here is a link to the AGA site with a neat little animated image of how the internal overflow basically works, pardon me if you are already clear on this:
http://www.all-glass.com/products/aq...flo_demo.shtml

Bottom line my personal opinion is to go with a drilled, reef ready tank. I have went both ways and the drilled tank is much easier.

If I went with one of the Lifereef sumps such as the Compact Berlin Filter, this would pretty much cover my filtration equipment needs (besides live rock, etc), correct? My next question is price. At $659 for the setup, this seems pretty steep for someone new to the hobby. Would one expect to pay this much if they bought the parts separately, as opposed to a ready-to-go system?

For example, could I put together a sump filtration system for less if I bought a sump, protein skimmer, etc. individually? On the other hand, it seems like there are a lot of miscellaneous parts that go into a sump filtration system, and my be a hassle for a novice to assemble. Would this be accurate?

Yes that would cover your needs (except for live filtration) and yes it is a bit high but not what your getting. First of all your getting a complete system by probably the highest rated manufacturer of acrylic filtration systems there is. Jeff provides excellent service and an excellent product that is complete with all of the fittings and parts that you need to get your system connected and running.

Most people choose to go out on their own due to the cost of his systems though. My set-up for example is a standard 20 gallon tank with 3 plexiglass baffles siliconed inside it. I have my heaters in there and my skimmer. The cost of the standard 20 gallon tank at a yard yard sale was $20 (it came with a bunch of other freshwater equipment and I bought it as a kit), the material for the baffles was probably $20 and then the price of my skimmer which I am waiting on a new MR-1 from My Reef Creations. Of course I have my return pump as well and all together the cost is a bit less than the Life Reef systems but no more difficult to put together. The other advantage is a larger choice of equipment; buying the complete system you are forced to get the Life Reef skimmer and the standard RIO pumps that come with the system which may not be a good choice for your particular systems (and RIO's are not preferred amungst hobbyist anyway).

It sounds like from what I've read on the boards that LifeReef is a fairly expensive brand, are there other less expensive options for sumps with all the equipment?

Again, expensive but not overly expensive for the product you are getting. I don't know of anyone else that makes complete standard systems like Life Reef but I know My Reef Creations makes sumps, skimmers and other acrylic goods and offers kit discounts I beleive. Give Andy a hollar at www.myreefcreations.com and let him know that you came from Reefland.

Lastly, I heard mentioned that the return can be used as circulation. If there is not a hole drilled in the aquarium, then I assume the return flow is sent through a pipe that bends up and over the aquarium side.

That's correct and even on my reef ready tank with a hole for the return I utilize the method you described.

For circulation, does it matter how the water is directed (ie. straight down), or is a return that pushes water out a hole from the side of an aquarium optimal?

You don't want it pushing down towards the floor of the aqaurium. Having it return towards the front of the tank, or even better at various angels or best, through a Sea Swirl is optimal. Do a search for Sea Swirl and spraybars for some options there but don't go straight down.

Man I love talking about this stuff.

Regard,s
Scott Z.

[Tervill]

Hi nrgy,

I'm quite new to the hobby as well, and I just got my 90 g up and running. It has already cycled, live rock has been added, and I'm just in the process of transfering my fish from my 30 g to the 90 g.

As far as the sump goes, I agree with Scott. I had a hole drilled in my tank to fit a 1" bulkhead. The sump that I use is just a 15g AGA. I went to the local Home Depot and purchased some 1/4 acrylic, cut it to the right sizes, and siliconed them into the sump tank. The total cost of the sump cost me about $50.00 (canadian). It works great. My 30g did not have a sump, and let me tell you, the 90g with the sump is 100 times better as far circulation, filtering, hidding heaters, etc... I'm glad to hear that you are going with the sump. And yes, this is a GREAT site for any kind of information you require. If you follow Scott's thread as well as Ninong's thread (picture of Ninong's tank in progress) as I did, you will learn a tremendous amount of info. Good luck with everything, and welcome to the wonderful world of reefkeeping!

Regards,

Terry