[melliepooh]

Ok guys, I'm freaking out... I asked about ich a few weeks ago and my yellow eye tang is about to die... I didn't think I'd get this upset over a fish but I am...I am yet to have a casualty and I hope not to have one if I can help it! She is now COVERED in spots and now my tomato clown has a few white spots on her!!!! I started medicating with a reef safe chemical VERY CAREFULLY, I have to do it for 14 days, 1 on and one off and I'm on day 6 - my anemones, corals and most of my fish are acting and eating fine. My yellow tang is back to normal which is great but my yellow eye tang is fading fast! I gave her a freshwater dip for 1 minute today which seemed to help but she's still swimming in one spot at the bottom of the tank (before the dip she was lying on her side on the bottom of the tank breathing REALLY heavy. We've never had anything but perfect water conditions, her tankmates are peaceful, so I don't even know where this came from! Any advice!?!?! I'm trying everything I know to save the little thing.
Thanx

[zhenya]

Sorry to hear it come to this,melliepooh

Somehow I felt when I read your first thread that it was just that,an Ich.
Freshwater dips are Ok to relieve the fish of attached parasites but after that you are putting right back into the lions den,so to speak.I'm sure you know that quarantine tank would be perfect if you had one,five gallon would do it or ten gallon tank is just about perfect to quarantine one or two fish.
What type of medication are you using?
Have you read this article describing certain methods of fighting Cryptocaryon irritans?
Here's the link to it just in case.
I'm really sorry to hear you have to go through this and wish you luck!

Here's couple more links:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/mini2.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/mini1.htm

[melliepooh]

Originally Posted by zhenya

Sorry to hear it come to this,melliepooh

Somehow I felt when I read your first thread that it was just that,an Ich.
Freshwater dips are Ok to relieve the fish of attached parasites but after that you are putting right back into the lions den,so to speak.I'm sure you know that quarantine tank would be perfect if you had one,five gallon would do it or ten gallon tank is just about perfect to quarantine one or two fish.
What type of medication are you using?
Have you read this article describing certain methods of fighting Cryptocaryon irritans?
Here's the link to it just in case.
I'm really sorry to hear you have to go through this and wish you luck!

Here's couple more links:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/mini2.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/mini1.htm

Hi Gene... Its not looking good for my poor fishie... She's lying on her side at the bottom of the aquarium again. I'm using Kent Marine RXP, one day on, one day off for 14 days. I took my carbon filter out as directed and will do a 20% water change when the medicating is done. What about my tomato clown??? She's still eating and acting normal but the little white specs worry me. Is there anything I can do besides what I'm doing? I tried the garlic but it didn't work and I had to act FAST! Should I just continue the treatment? Should that help with her spots???? Thanks for your quick response.
-Melliepooh

[madman19710]

if you are not going to move the fish to another tank a cleaner shrimp might help it wont make the ich go away but it will give your fish some releif plus they are pretty good scavengers too good luck.

[zhenya]

Hi melliepooh,

I hate to say it but in my estimate none of the medications really take care of the problem if you do not have quarantine tank to place your fish in.I'm also very sorry to say this but some fish will be lost,I know I did
loose almost all of them exept the yellow tang and couple of wrasses.
Cleaner shrimp will help to aleviate fish of some of the trophonts but it will do nothing in stopping Ich.If you read the articles that I linked to you'll understand what I'm saying... it is one tough mother to deal with. If you can remove hosts out of the tank into a quarantine tank the life cycle of the Cryptocaryon irritans will end without the host.

On a side note,I feel your pain having gone through it myself few years back but unfortunately I can't make it go away for you.The best thing to do IMHO is to get a small tank and make that a quarantine tank.No need for fancy gadgets or lighting,no light would be even better for stressed fish....

[melliepooh]

Ok guys... I'm losing my mind... Ready to cry. All my common clowns have ich!!! There's 4 of them, and I don't have the money right now for a QT tank!!! The store I buy my stuff from said I could borrow one... Should I put the 4 in it and treat with copper or what? And won't that put my marroon clown and yellow tang in danger again? Or do I move them, too? I'm about to scream. Please help

[Ninong]

Melliepooh,

Sorry to hear of your problem with ich. I assume you have already read the articles zhenya linked in his reply and you now understand the situation. What I am not sure of is exactly what you have in your tank since you are posting this in the Marine Fish-Only Tank forum and not the Reef Tank forum.

The reason I ask is because if you do not have live rock or invertebrates in your aquarium, you could employ hyposalinity treatment right in your main display tank. That would be fine as long as all you have are dead decorations and fish. I wouldn't recommend using copper in your main display tank even if you have no live rock, live sand or invertebrates because that would prevent you from adding invertebrates in the future.

The only way to interrupt the life cycle of the ich parasite is to remove ALL potential hosts (fish) from the tank for a period of at least four weeks -- six weeks to be on the safe side. It does no good whatsoever to remove a few fish, dip them and then return them to the infected tank. You must allow the tank to go fallow for a period long enough to break the parasite's life cycle.

As far as treatment of the fish is concerned, copper is the treatment most effective but hyposalinity also works. Both of these methods would obviously kill any live rock, live sand or invertebrates and are therefore usually reserved for quarantine tanks.

[melliepooh]

Hi Ninong... Yes, I read the articles that were recommended but I have live rock, as well as corals and invertibrates. Alas, my problem... I was just told that if I do a 10% water change every 2 days and increase the temperature to about 82 that that may work but I dunno... I don't know what else to do!!! I absolutely cannot afford a QT tank right now. Is my only choice to sit around and watch my fish suffer???

[Penguin]

melliepooh,

You can easily set up a quarantine tank on the cheap. You can pick up a 10g tank for under 10 bucks, and a small biowheel for under 20. Add a small heater and that's really all you'd need. Your yellow eye tang alone probably cost more than that. This small investment will pay off in the long run. It's probably too late for the current outbreak, but you'd have it for future additions/emergencies.

You also need to slow down. You are adding too much, too fast, to too young of a tank, no matter what your LFS told you. This is putting stress on your fish and making them susceptible to disease.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by melliepooh

Hi Ninong... Yes, I read the articles that were recommended but I have live rock, as well as corals and invertibrates. Alas, my problem... I was just told that if I do a 10% water change every 2 days and increase the temperature to about 82 that that may work but I dunno... I don't know what else to do!!! I absolutely cannot afford a QT tank right now. Is my only choice to sit around and watch my fish suffer???

I have never understood why some people recommend raising the water temperature a few degrees as a remedy for ich. The only difference between ich in a tank at 76 degrees and ich in a tank at 82 degrees is that their life cycle will be speeded up and the various stages will be shorter. I have also seen reports by a few folks that higher pH (8.6) may help but I have no idea if there is any truth to that or not.

There are anecdotal reports that garlic added to the food is sometimes effective. It would be worthwhile trying. The method most talked about is to buy some of that garlic extract stuff at one of those health food stores (GNC) and soak the fish's food in it before feeding. Other people have simply minced fresh garlic extremely fine and fed it to the tank mixed with the regular food. Horge once wrote an article on the benefits of garlic in treating, or preventing, ich. It's on one of the other boards somewhere.

Ich seems to be stress related in the sense that healthy, unstressed fish don't seem susceptible to it and stressed out fish are more likely to get it. Sudden changes in water temperature, especially if the tank had previously been maintained at a lower temperature, have been blamed for outbreaks of ich. My tank has no chiller and I fight water temperature problems during the summer months even though the house is air-conditioned. My water temperature runs from 79 degrees at night to 85 or even 86 degrees in the late afternoon during the summer. Right now I'm running 79 at night to about 82 or 83 degrees in the late afternoon. So far I have not had an ich experience.

There are many different opinions about ich. I have read some articles claiming that once you get it, it will always be in your tank. Sort of like the dormant lotus seed removed from a tomb hundreds of years later that grew once it was placed in the pond. Common sense seems to tell us that if there are no fish in the tank for a long enough period, the life cycle should be broken. Perhaps a few remain viable much longer than they are supposed to but one would think that if the tank were allowed to remain fish-free for say 90 days that should be more than long enough to put an end to it. But then you read reports from people who say that their ich outbreak went away, they didn't add anything new to the tank, and then six months later they have ich again.

The best treatment for ich is to never get it in the first place. The best way to go about that is to have a quarantine tank and to use it for all incoming fish. I wish I had one but I don't. So I have been extremely careful (paranoid) in my selection and introduction of livestock. I still don't have a tang in my tank and maybe I never will -- it is rather on the small side for a tang (120-gallons). But if I ever get a tang, I will want to pick it out personally at an LFS so that I can see what it looks like and also so that I can avoid shipping stress to the tang just prior to placing it in my tank.

I hope your situation improves. Try the garlic thing, it can't hurt.

Good luck,

[melliepooh]

Hi Ninong... I forgot to mention it but I have been using garlic to soak their food in for over a week... I'm not sure if its helping... My tang is fine, my maroon clown, too but the tomato clown and my common clowns aren't looking so great... When I have a little extra cash, I will opt for a QT tank, I think...We observed all of our fish before we picked them - I don't know what else to say...

[Poseidon]

Here as ULTRA Cheap QT.... A 5 gallon BUCKET! add an Airstone and Small heater, some gravel from the tank and POW... A Hospital tank on the cheap. If you use Copper DO NOT RETURN the gravel in the bucket to the tank, pitch it. THis set up should be less the 20 bux including the Meds. I think you have a bucket laying around right? If not you can get one at Home Depot for 3-5 dollars.