[SteveP]

Hi all - new to the forum, so be gentle with me

I had a nice reef setup a couple of years ago, but due to a couple of work induced house moves, I broke down and sold my baby to the local fish stores.

Having got the bug again, I am in the process of re-setting up my 70g, and had a couple of questions for the experts, as everything seems to have changed since the last time I did this !

Basic setup is 70g tank, 10g sump fed by a Durso standpipe overflow system (tank is not drilled) using a Rio 2100 as a return pump. 2 skimmers - Red Sea Prizm hung on the back, Bigger venturi skimmer sat in the sump (cant remember the make, but it's driven by another Rio 2100 and used to pull a goodly amount of dark gunk).

Tank bottom is covered with a mix of 40# live sand, 20# 1-2mm Aragonite 20# regular sand. About 30# of base (non-live) rock is currently in the tank, and about 20# of live-rock. I am looking to add at least another 40# live rock, as soon as I find any locally that is worth paying for (frankly, the stuff I have seen of late is nothing short of lousy - starting to consider online sources). Circulation is provided by the Rio 2100 return, Prizm skimmer outflow, a Maxijet 1200 that was lying around, and a Fluval 404 canister running Carbon and Floss. Lighting will be 4x 48" 110W VHO (2x 50/50 / 2x 03) on 2 Sunseeker ballasts and 2 36" NO actinics on a Coralife balast.

Tank will be Soft Corals, with a few fish only. I don't think I have the lighting for LPS, certainly not for SPS, and MH isn't an option with the tank/hood/room setup
(at this time).

Sump was originally setup with a bio-ball tower, but reading a number of posts here, it would appear that this is no longer the recommended approach ? Assuming I can find some reasonable quality live-rock, and bring the total up to around 70#, am I better off just running the sump without the balls entirely ? Anyone got some good leads on a reputable online rock dealer ?

Comments, suggestions, advice ?

Thanks !!!

Steve

[Poseidon]

Boy you sure don't sound like a newbie!! I would agree with everything you have posted, except the floss in the fluval. Either you would need to change it every 2 weeks or not use it... It can trap Detritus and that breaks down into Nitrate eventually. Just use the live rock and Skimmers and you will be fine. Maybe use the fluval just for carbon, which you will be changing frequently anyway. Same thing with the Bio balls, you don't really need them either. My tank has about 100# of rock and a 40 gallon sump filled with Macro Algae and I use a pretty big skimmer and thats it... no floss or balls or any other mechanical type of filtration!!!

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

Boy you sure don't sound like a newbie!!

Well, not really new to the hobby, but new to this forum, and some of the newer "best practices".

I would agree with everything you have posted, except the floss in the fluval. Either you would need to change it every 2 weeks or not use it... It can trap Detritus and that breaks down into Nitrate eventually.

Ok, I used to use it just to "polish", I generally changed it with my bi-weekly water changes.

Just use the live rock and Skimmers and you will be fine. Maybe use the fluval just for carbon, which you will be changing frequently anyway.

Assuming I can find some decent live rock...

Same thing with the Bio balls, you don't really need them either. My tank has about 100# of rock and a 40 gallon sump filled with Macro Algae and I use a pretty big skimmer and thats it... no floss or balls or any other mechanical type of filtration!!!

Ok I have removed the balls, fired up the bigger skimmer (I'm probably going to have to perform some sump surgery... lots of bubbles in the tank right now!) and started adding more Live Rock. We'll see how things progress!

Thanks for the advice !

Steve

[Poseidon]

Anytime... I know what you mean about the rock, the stuff I have seen around town (flint MI), looks like crap!!!

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

Anytime... I know what you mean about the rock, the stuff I have seen around town (flint MI), looks like crap!!!

Auburn Hills MI here, so just down the road.

I'm planning on taking a trip down to Tropicorium in Romulus tomorrow, see if theirs is any better than the 4 local stores I've tried up to now - otherwise, I might be forced to buy some online.

Steve

[Poseidon]

You will have a little better luck there. I was down there about 2 weeks ago, and bought a few rocks. It was labeled Vanuatu, nice coralline coverage, but not much else. Down side is the price... $8.99/#. Maybe ask when you go, cause the website says $6/#. Most of what they had there was real crap though, it must be the supply that is bad right now. I have seen one store have crap and another have good, but it has been a LONg time since the rock looked this crappy all over the place.

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

Down side is the price... $8.99/#. ...[snip] the rock looked this crappy all over the place.

Yeah, kinda why I am almost ready to buy online, for less than half the price, it's hard to imagine getting rock that is any worse than the LFSs have in their tanks right now. Plus, wanting to add another 70-100#, $4.00 a pound becomes a significant chunk of change

Steve

[SteveP]

Ok, Tank is up and cycling right now - broke down and built a custom sump with a small refugium/sand bed into the sump itself, complete with baffles and so on to stop the skimmer filling my tank with bubbles

So should I be looking for some Caulerpa for my little refugium now, or wait for the tank to cycle for a while ?

Pics of the sump attached (I think!) (can you tell I am pleased with the sump ?)

Steve

[Poseidon]

Lookin' Good!!

Are those rio pumps though? If so keep a CLOSE CLOSE eye on them, they have a reputation of melting down!! If you can maybe exchange them for a MAG drive brand, they have a much better reputation.

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

Lookin' Good!!

Are those rio pumps though? If so keep a CLOSE CLOSE eye on them, they have a reputation of melting down!! If you can maybe exchange them for a MAG drive brand, they have a much better reputation.

Yep, Rio 2100s - actually I've been running this pair for about 3-4 years with no problems - might be time for an upgrade, the return pump is actually just a little too powerful for the overflow now that I modified it to the standpipe design.

Steve

[Tie]

Wow... nice job! What size tank is that and what did it cost you to build it? I'm starting a 72 Gal. and I got stuck with a wet/dry that my LFS sold me and refused to take back. I took the balls out and am just using it as a sump but it's kinda small and throws lots of bubbles back into the tank.

I was going to save up and buy a nice sump but you've inspired me! Any details you have on your sump or what you used as guide would be most appreciated.

Oh, and more good news! I also have a brand new $100 (prolly truely retails for $60) rio sitting in my $300 5 gal (former wet/dry) sump waiting to "melt down"! I'm really starting to hate my LFS! I'm afraid to tell you how much I spent on my light strip that was supposedly good enough for ANYTHING I wanted to put in my tank.

I just feel raped right now to tell you the truth =(

[Poseidon]

Bummer Tie!!! If it makes you feel any better I too spent a TON O MONEY at the LFS before I wised up and started asking questions here BEFORE I bought anything. Then slowly I realized how much better it is to buy livestock here and dry goods online. I have purchased snails and other critters on line, but so far I haven't bought any fish or corals!!

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by Tie

Wow... nice job!

Why thanks !

What size tank is that and what did it cost you to build it? I'm starting a 72 Gal. and I got stuck with a wet/dry that my LFS sold me and refused to take back. I took the balls out and am just using it as a sump but it's kinda small and throws lots of bubbles back into the tank.

I was going to save up and buy a nice sump but you've inspired me! Any details you have on your sump or what you used as guide would be most appreciated.

Actually, it was a whole lot easier, and a whole lot cheaper than I expected. If you are anyway handy with a craft knife and can draw a bead of caulk, you are all set. I was fedup with my old trickle, and combined with Poseiden's advice, I wanted to change it out. I'd looked at a couple of readymade Wet/Dry/Trickle setups, and frankly I was completely shocked at the prices - $400 for one I saw, with no pump or skimmer ! Total cost for my homemade one was maybe $50 - and I got to put in a few little modifications that have made my overflow and return almost silent.

The main tank is a 75g, but the stand is a bit awkward with just one door, so a 24x12 is the biggest I could get in - I used a 15g tank as the basis for the sump ($20). The dividers and baffles are all acrylic from Home Depot, about $2 for an 11"x14" sheet - I bought 7 (4 for baffles, 2 for a cover, one for screwups - total $14) - it comes in various thicknesses, and I used the 0.093 which appears perfectly adequate, though for anything taller (read more water) I would probably go up a thickness, I do get a little bow in one piece as it fills but it's fine once things equalize. A couple tubes of sealant from the LFS ($10), a new craft knife ($5) and the rest was just sweat - I guess it took me maybe 5-6 hours to put together plus the curing time.

I now have a 15g sump, which usually holds about 10g when everything is running, and incorporates a 5g refugium that stays full even in the event of a lost overflow or runaway pump.

If you want me to put together a complete step-by-steo on how I built mine, I'd be more than happy to - I took pictures along the way, but I have them on my other machine that I won't be back to until tomorrow.

Steve

[Tie]

Originally Posted by SteveP

If you want me to put together a complete step-by-steo on how I built mine, I'd be more than happy to - I took pictures along the way, but I have them on my other machine that I won't be back to until tomorrow.

Yes. I'm going to do it. I was looking at a cool sump online but, yeah it's pricey. Do you any problems with bubles blowing back into the tank?

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by Tie

Yes. I'm going to do it. I was looking at a cool sump online but, yeah it's pricey. Do you any problems with bubles blowing back into the tank?

No problems with bubbles, at least not that I can see at the moment

Steve

[Penguin]

What kind of sealant did you use to put the baffles in? I'm thinking of using my current 20H as a sump when I upgrade, hopefully this summer. I also had looked at ready-built sumps but was dissuaded by the prices.

[Poseidon]

I just used standard Aquarium Sealant... from Lowes or Home Depot... Much cheaper!

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

I just used standard Aquarium Sealant... from Lowes or Home Depot... Much cheaper!

That will work, just be careful that it doesn't contain any bactericide or mold inhibitor - a lot of them do - I bought my sealant from the fish store, maybe $5 a tube ?

I put the web page up with my step-by-step example - have fun

http://www.sjpdesigns.com/NewReef/sumphowto.htm

Steve

[Poseidon]

Super cool site Steve!! I wish I would have documented my construction like that!!! I sent a PM to reefer769, that site should really clear things up for him...

[Penguin]

Thanks. Very helpful info, and funny to boot.