Only One Durso working??lot's of noise/bubbles

[Bamm Bamm]

Only One Durso working??lot's of noise/bubbles
Ok so I finally have my tank done or so I thought. Here's the specific's 55 gallon acrylic Tru Vu tank w/21 gallon acrylic sump. Mag 9.5 Return Pump and mag12 and a SQWD on a closed loop. The main goal is for the tank to have enough flow to not need any powerheads and to be able to keep SPS. I have it setup now for testing with just plain tap water.
The overflow is very noisy and sometimes flushing. Also it only one of the 1" overflows ever has water going through it. and it is gurgling and throwing tons of bubbles int he sump

I'm having issues with my Through the back wall Durso style overflow with an internal overflow box. The box measures 8"L x 6" T x 3.5" Deep. I have two 1" bulkheads in the boxes with 1" elbows with about 3" pipes on them pointing down to the bottom of the internal overflow box. The overflow box filled with fill up to the top of the elbows with no air going into the Top of the Cap on the T behind the tank. if I open up the blue airline fittings on back of the durso the water level either falls all the way to the bottom of the internal overflow or it stay constant. If it stays constant it throws all kinda of bubbles into the sump is is really noisy. When I open up all 4 air valves(2 on each Cap.) Then it starts making a loud whistling sound(leaky tire sound never stops) and the sump throughout throw lots of air and bubles into it. The 1" flex Spa Hose is about 6-8" into the bottom of the sump. Only 1 of the overflows is working though.. I have the mag9.5 running at full throttle.

What can I do. It's soo damned loud I can't even hear myself think..
Couple of things I'm thinking of doing(maybe trying to use 1.25" elbows inside the internal overflow(*might not be able though due to size constraints, i had to make the 1" elbows narrower), making it so the spa flex doesn't go much lower than maybe 1-2" below the water line int he sump..


Any suggestions?? I thought of putting a ball valve on top of each durso- But I glued the caps in I guess I could drill then out and add a 1/2 ball valve maybe.. Why is only one of the overflows working?? Any and all suggestions would be great.. Is my return pump just too small?> I'm thinking of trying my mag12 but didn't want that much flow through the sump( I have 2 3/4" locl line returns going into the tank from the mag9.5) Any and all suggestions woul be great I need to get all my livestock and everything out of my 90g reef and into this tank as soon as I get it quieted down.. Oh and all the pumps are running externally if that matters..The SWQD is a bit noisy also, I've already cleaned it and the mag12 once..

Dan


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[SteveP]

The overflow is very noisy and sometimes flushing. Also it only one of the 1" overflows ever has water going through it. and it is gurgling and throwing tons of bubbles int he sump

Ok the flushing and gurgling tend to suggest that you have the pipe into the sump too deep into the water - try lifting it out a little - as long as it is under the water it should be fine, don't bury it at the bottom of the sump tho.

I'm having issues with my Through the back wall Durso style overflow with an internal overflow box. The box measures 8"L x 6" T x 3.5" Deep. I have two 1" bulkheads in the boxes with 1" elbows with about 3" pipes on them pointing down to the bottom of the internal overflow box.

This seems like too long a downpipe - all that is needed is to keep the inlet under the water level - you may be restricting the inlet because of it's close proximity to the base of the overflow - typically a street-elbow or similar is used, just to keep the inlet below the waterline - see this pic from Durso's site http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/stand...arry_maras.jpg

The overflow box filled with fill up to the top of the elbows with no air going into the Top of the Cap on the T behind the tank. if I open up the blue airline fittings on back of the durso the water level either falls all the way to the bottom of the internal overflow or it stay constant.

With no air, all you have is a siphon, not an overflow in the strictest sense. You have to have some air flowing in order to allow the overflow to operate smoothly - all the standpipe design will do is minimize the swirling sucking noise that happens with a normal open hole at the bottom of the overflow box. The water level should be at, or slighly above the hole in the standpipe where the elbox connects.

If it stays constant it throws all kinda of bubbles into the sump is is really noisy. When I open up all 4 air valves(2 on each Cap.) Then it starts making a loud whistling sound(leaky tire sound never stops) and the sump throughout throw lots of air and bubles into it.

Ok, this might sound silly, but I think your air hole is just not big enough

The 1" flex Spa Hose is about 6-8" into the bottom of the sump.

and that is probably too deep - hence the flushing effect.

Only 1 of the overflows is working though.. I have the mag9.5 running at full throttle.

Concentrate on the working pipe - I'm guessing the second pipe is sealed better, traps air in the elbow as the overflow fills and never actually starts overflowing maybe.

What can I do. It's soo damned loud I can't even hear myself think..
Couple of things I'm thinking of doing(maybe trying to use 1.25" elbows inside the internal overflow(*might not be able though due to size constraints, i had to make the 1" elbows narrower), making it so the spa flex doesn't go much lower than maybe 1-2" below the water line int he sump..

Any suggestions?? I thought of putting a ball valve on top of each durso- But I glued the caps in I guess I could drill then out and add a 1/2 ball valve maybe.. Why is only one of the overflows working?? Any and all suggestions would be great.. Is my return pump just too small?> I'm thinking of trying my mag12 but didn't want that much flow through the sump( I have 2 3/4" locl line returns going into the tank from the mag9.5) Any and all suggestions woul be great I need to get all my livestock and everything out of my 90g reef and into this tank as soon as I get it quieted down.. Oh and all the pumps are running externally if that matters..The SWQD is a bit noisy also, I've already cleaned it and the mag12 once..

1) Move the outflow pipe so that it is just under the water level in the sump
2) Open up the air holes fully on the working pipe
a) if it still makes a racket, remove the top cap, or drill it out and see if it runs better with more air - you can always reduce this back down with sealant or a new cap.
b) if it runs better, slowly reduce the hole until the minimum noise/bubble is acheived.

If you have any pictures, or a diagram of your setup, that may be useful too.

Steve



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[Reefland]

Ok, this might sound silly, but I think your air hole is just not big enough

I think this is the problem, myself. My standpipe had to have 3 - 1/8" holes in the top of it before is quieted down.

Scott Z.

[Bamm Bamm]

Thanks Steve and Scott. Great info..

here's what I did last night-

added 1" ball valves to the overflows(no place local carries gate valves(at least not that was open, www.plumbingsupply.com is down the street from my work.)

shortened the hose going into the sump(helped some)
Installed a plstic bucket in the sump that the hoses now go into and drilled dozens of holes in it..This helped out-adding a filter pad underneath the hoses in bucket helped alot.

At one point I even closed off one overflow completely and the single durso was enough to handle the mag9.5 at full throttle(so I overbuilt the overflows)


So here's what I'm doing tonight to try and solve this.. Switching the return and closed loops pumps out. Going to runt he mag12 for hte return and try the mag9.5 on the Closed Loop. See if this helps any(I don't think the mag9.5 will be strong enough though-so if the mag12 works for the return I'll probably just buy another one for the Closed Loop)

I'm going to mess with the holes in the top of the T's and see if that can help. I have two 1/8" holes in there on each pipe right now with a Lee's air adjustment thingie.. Still looking for that happy medium..

[Reefland]

What happens if you remove the air needles? If it is flushing, I would say it's not getting enough air still and removing the needles will actually increase the amount of air the pipe can pull through.

[Bamm Bamm]

when i removed the needles it filled the overflow box completley to the top and started to overfill the tank, pretty weird. Im going to mess with it tonight but I think I'll have a few beers first=).. I'm going to mess with it a little more tonight It;s pretty discouraging..Oh Scott.. The internal overflow box I'm using is actually from the dual overflow I got from you way back when...

[Reefland]

Yeah your just going to have to find the balance. Maybe a needles valve in and one not would do it.

Scott Z.

[scubadude]

Hey Dan,
Didnt have time to read the whole thread but wanted to make a suggestion...you said one of the o-flows isnt working as well as the other? It sounds to me like you dont have them perfectly level with each other (this has happened 2 me b4) ? Also on the airholes and valves for the gurgling you should try and get away from the bleeder lines if at all possible and use something thats thicker than 1/4" as that may not be a big enough aperture for the amount of air you need to the standpipes?

[Bamm Bamm]

Hey Dan,
Didnt have time to read the whole thread but wanted to make a suggestion...you said one of the o-flows isnt working as well as the other? It sounds to me like you dont have them perfectly level with each other (this has happened 2 me b4) ? Also on the airholes and valves for the gurgling you should try and get away from the bleeder lines if at all possible and use something thats thicker than 1/4" as that may not be a big enough aperture for the amount of air you need to the standpipes?

Thanks guys.. Rocky you are right I noticed the right one is slightly higher in the tank(due to my last of use of a tape measure when drilling) I added a very short piece of pipe to it last night to compensate for it. and then here's what else I did

Well i finally got it fixed last night I think I'm comfortable with it now I didn't leave it running while I'm at work though since there's no salt or anything in it.. I shortened and further straigtened up the overflow lines coming into the sump, adjust the flow into each overflow with the ball valves, opened up the airvalves a little bit and also switched the mag 9.5 return pump for the mag12 Closed Loop pump and I then put the mag9.5 on the closed loop..This seems to work fairly well I need to glue a few things tonight after I get home from work and also I need to replumb the mag9.5 I had a slight leak and had to pull the pump last night.. Thanks to everyone so much for all of the help I really appreciate it..

new plan is to glue everything tonight and then let it run all weekend with freshwater in it and if everything works as planned I'll be going back to the Bay Area next weekend to put up my LS, LR, corals and fish out of my 90gallon reef I'm tearing down.. Thanks again
Dan