Supplements

[Tie]

There are SO many products out there for Reef tanks. I know I feel like I probably need to start adding some supplements to get my tank in shape for it's future inhabitants but I'm having a hard time deciding what to use.

It sounds like Kalkwasser (lime water) is a must and I'm going to order some right away. I understand I should start using that right now even though I don't have anything in the tank yet but LR and different algae, good and bad.

But what about the other "trace elements". I know it probably has a lot do with what inhabits your tank. Right now nothing but LR and algae like I said. But I plan on having Fish, Soft/hard Corrals, Clams, mushrooms, etc. Your average mix I would say.

Stuff I think I'll start using now..............
A vitamin complex:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...6&N=2004+22763 Or this one http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...2&N=2004+22763

Kalkwasser: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...&N=2004+113008

Stuff I'm thinking about.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...565&in_merch=1

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...&N=2004+113008

I would be interested to hear what you keep in your tanks?

[Reefland]

Tie,

I'm glad you asked before you went shopping.

The only elements you need to add to your tank is something to maintain calcium and alkalinity; other that those the food you add takes care of the rest. ;)

You mention Kalkwasser which is fine. Before you buy the expensive stuff, you local grocery carries the same thing. Wages and Mrs Balls Pickling Lime are the exact same thing.

Skip the "vitamins" and the "essential elements" are not needed or recommended and the Tech C&B you are covering with your kalk.

Scott Z.

[Ninong]

You mention Kalkwasser which is fine. Before you buy the expensive stuff, you local grocery carries the same thing. Wages and Mrs Balls Pickling Lime are the exact same thing.


Scott Z.

Scott meant to say Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime and Ball's Pickling Lime, both sell for about $1.29/lb. and are pure food-grade calcium hydroxide.

[Reefland]

Darnit, I always get the backwards but I was sure I got it right this time.

[zhenya]

get the Mrs.Balls and Mr.Wadges to stop confusing Scott,Ninong

[Juvv]

i think it also depends on what types of stuff you add to your tank, ie. shrimp, what types of croals etc. All trace elements are in the water anyway, basically all your doing is just re stocking the water of the elements that the corals and stuff take out, so if you do regular water changes, quite a few of the "trace elements" will be back into the water.

[Reefland]

Maybe if I start saying Mrs. Walls ya'll will stop joking on me.

Scott Z.

[Poseidon]

Personally I use Ball Pickling lime...

I was laughing the other day at the grocery Store, I bought:

Lime 1.79 (CAlcium Hydroxide)
Baking Soda .79 (for pH)
White Vinegar 3.89 (Gallon, to clean Lime dosing bottle)
and Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate) 2.99

Grand Total:$9.46

1 16oz bottle of Kent "Kalkwasser" at the LFS: $19.95
1 8oz bottle of "marine Buffer" at LFS $9.99
1 Kent Tectra-M Magnesium 16 oz at LFS 14.95

Total: $44.89

SO if you shop at the local Grocer, it leaves you $35.43 in your pocket. That's enough to buy a nice Coral Beauty!!!

[Tie]

Glad I asked! I'll just pick up some of that Mrs. Wages. Scott I'm not sure it's legal for grocery stores to sell "Mrs. Balls Pickling". That's prolly something you can only find on some wierdo online shop. LOL

Anyway, thanks.

Oh, BTW do you guys use an AquaDose with your lime? Or just do your daily top off with lime water?

[Ninong]

Tie,

It's a good idea to use a vitamin supplement rich in Omega 3 and other HUFAs (highly unsaturated fatty acids) to add to your fish food occasionally. The best of those is called Selcon: http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...Americanmarine

[Ninong]

Oh, BTW do you guys use an AquaDose with your lime? Or just do your daily top off with lime water?

Yes, I use a 2.5-gal Kent AquaDose to drip my limewater (Kalkwasser) every night into my sump. It has to be dripped slowly over a period of at least a few hours. It cannot be added all at once because it has a pH of 12. It is best to start dripping it late at night after all of the lights are out. That helps to counteract the natural drop in pH at night. And, yes, the nightly limewater IS my daily evaporation replacement.

[fishgeeksrus]

You guys are my heros!!!

I cant believe how much information and knowledge you have crammed into your heads. It seems as though every time we have a question, no matter how tough or off the wall, you always have answers for us (the general reefland population)

For that I thank you all!

[Tie]

I cant believe how much information and knowledge you have crammed into your heads

Yeah, it's kinda creapy!

[LazyReef]

Without considering alkalinity and calcium supplements, I believe that you add iron, managnese, zinc, and iodide. All of these elements should be added in low frequent amounts or increase algae growth will occur. These elements are necessary for algae to grow. Corals with symbiont algae Zooxanthellae also require these elements. I also add strontium and balance my alkalinity/calcium buffer system with magnesium. I use a caulerpa scrubber and judge the adittion of my additives by the growth rate of the caulerpa. If cyanos begin to form in my scrubber I back off. I make my own supplement from chemicals, but if I had to reccomend one on the shelg It would be CombiSan.

I noticed some advice on KW and BIonice. KW just doesn't cut it. You have to add tons to keep your levels up. It is balanced however, 1 part alkalinity, 1 part calcium, which is why it works well. B Ionic also contains other elements which comprise a balanced buffer system. When using B Ionic, if you find your calcium is in need of a boost, use a little more of the calcium part.

Calcium and Alkalinity are like a seesaw. When one goes up, the other goes down. I do not measure for calcium any more. I merely measure alkalinity every now and then. I make my own test reagents, but would reccomend the SeaTest brand. Fine accuracy is not necessary, but balance is.

I do test for magnessium every now and then to make sure that it is not laking. Low magnessium can really whack out a buffer system.

I will confess that I use a Calcium reactor myself, because it is more economicle than a two part system and provides some of the other elements. I also use Natural Sea Water for water changes every now and then.

[Ninong]

I make my own supplement from chemicals, but if I had to reccomend one on the shelg It would be CombiSan.

CombiSan?

Are you aware that three different independent laboratory tests (ICP) have proven that CombiSan is more than 99.9% water?

The first test was commissioned by Dr. Ron Shimek and published by him in an article on analyses of various foods and additives. The results were challenged by Julian Sprung and Danny Ramirez (Two Little Fishies) who threatened to sue Dr. Shimek. Inland Reef Aquaria in New Hampshire decided to commission their own tests of CombiSan at a different independent laboratory. Those test confirmed the first tests commissioned by Dr. Shimek. Mr. Sprung then decided to commission his own tests. His tests confirmed the results of the other two tests.

Mr. Sprung's resolution of this dilemma was to remove the guaranteed analysis from the CombiSan label. His defense was that Peter Wilkens had assured him of the guaranteed analysis and he didn't think it appropriate to question Peter Wilkens. Mr. Wilkens' defense was that he was horrified that anyone would question his integrity.

It made for some very interesting reading on both Reef Central and Reefs.org a couple of years ago. I guess you missed it.

[Poseidon]

I noticed some advice on KW and BIonice. KW just doesn't cut it. You have to add tons to keep your levels up.

Really? I add a TOTAL of 1 tsp every other day to keep my Ca at 450ppm and Alk at 9 dkh. And at a price of 1.79 for 32 ounces, it wouldn't matter to me if I had to add 10 TIMES as much as I do. I guess a picture to prove it effectiveness would help...

Here

to show coralline Algae growth

[LazyReef]

Wow. I did miss that. That is very interesting. Thanks for providing that info. Like I stated I make my own supplement and I label it CombiNot. I was just goofing, but how apropo.

[acropora]

Wow. I did miss that. That is very interesting. Thanks for providing that info. Like I stated I make my own supplement and I label it CombiNot. I was just goofing, but how apropo.

Can you tell us where you get your iron and maganese.
Thanks in advance.

[Ninong]

Wow. I did miss that. That is very interesting. Thanks for providing that info. Like I stated I make my own supplement and I label it CombiNot. I was just goofing, but how apropo.

Here is a chart that shows the "guaranteed analysis" of CombiSan as claimed by Two Little Fishies along with the test results obtained by Dr. Shimek and later test results obtained by Inland Reef Aquaria: http://www.inlandreef.com/Testing/CSanalysis.html

Here is a thread on Reefland where this topic was discussed and in which I have included Julian's response: Combisan

In case that chart is eventually taken down, I will list a few of the test results here:

Iron was guaranteed to be 1115.00 ppm but found to be only 23.00 and 22.00 ppm

Manganese was guaranteed to be 830.00 ppm but found to be only 18.00 and 20.00 ppm

Molybdenum was guaranteed to be 26.00 ppm but found to be only 0.24 and 0.85 ppm

Strontium was guaranteed to be 48.00 ppm but found to be 0.01 and <0.01 ppm

Vanadium was guaranteed to be 18.00 ppm but found to be <0.03 and <0.01 ppm

Zinc was guaranteed to be 62.00 ppm but found to be 5.80 and 4.80 ppm


In summary, CombiSan was found to be more than 99.9% moisture. Julian's response was simply to remove the guaranteed analysis from the label. It is still available and Peter Wilkens assures us that it is still the same wonderful product it always was. BTW, Dr. Shimek tested another TLF product at the same time: Marine Snow. It was found to be more than 99% moisture.

The above test results speak for themselves. There is nothing I could add that would be more eloquent than that except caveat emptor.