[Reefer769]

i was the the LFS the other day and i noticed they were selling black and white percula clowns for $79.99!! is this insane? or are they really this valuable??

[Leddy]

i think the "True" Perculas are expensive, the perculas that you have are the so called "false" perculas. they look practically identical to each other. i'm not too sure on how much "true" perculas are, but i guess they can be expensive. someone on the site will know for sure though and let you know.



Leddy

[Poseidon]

Yes "True Black Perculas" are MUCH more expensive then the Ocellaris clowns are. Reefland has a pair of Black Percs. I'll bet he didn't pay $80 a piece, but I'll bet they were more then 15-20 bux a piece!!

[Reefer769]

cool, ive seen them online for around 30$, i guess my LFS is just ripping us off

[Reefland]

Probably an expected LFS mark-up of 300 - 500%. The pair of black clownfish that I have are just a black color morph of A. Ocellaris, commonly called False Percula's.

[Ninong]

Darn, Scott beat me to it.

There are two possibilities here:

(1) Black color morphs of Amphiprion ocellaris endemic to the area around Darwin, Australia

(2) True black perculas (Amphiprion percula) that are being captive-bred in England.

We think that Scott's are A. ocellaris but he never did count the dorsal spines yet as far as I know.

[Ninong]

I just checked Jeff's Exotic Fish in L.A. and he has black percs (A. ocellaris) for $15 or less: http://www.exoticfish.com/

[Reefland]

No I never did count the dorsal spines. Still having trouble counting anything through that jungle!

[Reefer769]

cool, i like the website would that be a good website to order some off of? and i have a question, can i mix the 2 orange perculas i have with 1 or 2 of the black perculas in my 30gal? or would that be 2 many fish?


and how large do the SMALL black perculas get?

[Poseidon]

No I think you would have trouble trying to mix ANY additional Clowns in your tank. I tried to add a Yellow striped marroon, and My A. Ocellaris just went to town on him... Poor guy was demoted to the sump in a matter of minutes, then to LFS to trade in for store credit...

[Reefer769]

ok well i guess i will hold back on that one untill i get a larger tank

[Poseidon]

Originally Posted by Reefer769

ok well i guess i will hold back on that one untill i get a larger tank

I don't think that will help, I have a 135 gallon tank. Maybe if you get a 500 gallon PLUS!!!

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefer769

cool, i like the website would that be a good website to order some off of?

I don't have any experience ordering from them, I was just pointing out that the prices for fish can vary a lot from one vendor to the next. Don't forget to consider the cost of shipping. It would probably cost you $50 to ship one or two small fish from L.A. to Chicago.

I have ordered fish online before but I ordered from a place with a reputation for having the highest prices but the best livestock and best handling. I still think it is much better to buy fish locally whenever possible. That's what I always try to do.

and i have a question, can i mix the 2 orange perculas i have with 1 or 2 of the black perculas in my 30gal?

I would stick with just two clownfish of the same species so that they can form a pair. You would need an extremely large tank to get more than one mated pair of the same species. And I would not try to keep more than one species of clownfish in a 30-gal tank. You are going to have to stop using common names if you want others to understand what you are talking about. "Orange perculas" could mean either Ocellaris clownfish or Percula clownfish and "black perculas" could mean either Ocellaris clownfish or Percula clownfish. You really need to learn the correct scientific names so that there will be no confusion in your discussions.

It is possible to form a mated pair with one black Ocellaris and one regular orange Ocellaris but I see no good reason for doing it. It is even possible to form a mated pair with one Ocellaris and one Percula but that's something I wouldn't be interested in doing. Several of the clownfish species have been known to crossbreed and produce fertile hybrids.

and how large do the SMALL black perculas get?

Again, it is impossible to answer your question without knowing which species you are asking about. If you are asking about Amphiprion percula, the answer is 2.4" SL (standard length) for a mature female. If you are asking about A. ocellaris, the answer is 3.1" SL for the female. In both of those species the females are larger than the males. Standard length does not include the caudal fin. Total length (TL) would include the caudal fin. In most clownfish species the mature female is larger than the male. In the case of Premnas biaculeatus (Maroon clowns) the difference in size is extreme. In the case of A. clarkii (Clark's clowns), there is virtually no difference in size between mature males and females.

[Poseidon]

Ya... What Ninong SAID!!!

[Reefer769]

alright sorry about not using the correct names ill try and do that from now on, and thanks for all of the information!

[fishgeeksrus]

We have a lfs that has a breeding pair of black Onyx clowns? He says that they are not the ocellaris. How rare are these?



http://asplashoflife.com

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by fishgeeksrus

We have a lfs that has a breeding pair of black Onyx clowns? He says that they are not the ocellaris. How rare are these?



http://asplashoflife.com

None of the so-called black percs are actually rare. According to that website, they are selling "Tank raised black onyx percs." Just remember that common names are confusing, misleading and numerous. Even in the same language. There are often several different English common names for the same fish and, even worse, there are often several different species of fish that are called by the same common name. There are at least ten different species of fish that are called "scooter blennies," most of which are not even blennies.

Clownfish names are very confusing because the vendors, especially the LFS, refuse to use scientific names and deliberately use misleading names. The best example of this is the common practice of calling virtually everything "Sebae Clowns." It is extremely rare for true Amphiprion sebae clownfish to be available at an LFS and yet practically all of them claim to sell Sebae Clowns. In almost all of those cases they are selling Clark's Clownfish and calling them Sebae Clowns.

To answer your question, the word "onyx" in the name of the fish you asked about is simply a marketing addition to hype the fish and make it sound more expensive. But as long as we are talking about common names they can call it anything they choose. If I had to venture a guess as to what they actually have for sale I would guess that they are selling captive-bred Amphiprion percula clownfish from the U.K. that have been bred to maximize the black in their coloration. But that's just a guess. It's hard to say for sure if they refuse to use the scientific name. If they are selling just the offspring of their resident breeding pair, then I would guess that they got their fish originally from the U.K. They are probably A. percula but there is no guarantee of that. Some of the vendors selling the black morph of A. ocellaris incorrectly insist that their fish are not Ocellaris clowns.

Usually Ocellaris clowns have 11 dorsal spines and Percula clowns have just 9 or 10. Ocellaris clowns usually have 17 pectoral rays and Percula clowns usually have only 16, but there are sometimes exceptions.

P.S. -- And it usually does you no good whatsoever to ask them for the scientific name because most of them don't know it. Believe me, that is NOT an overstatement.

P.P.S. -- Here is another example of how confusing English common names can be: Just try to find something on www.fishbase.org using the common name that is the one you are familiar with for a certain fish. If you can find the correct fish in one out of three attempts you are lucky. And if you know the correct scientific name, you will be surprised to read their list of common names for that fish and find that most of them are unfamiliar to you, even the ones in English. I have several different books on fish that are translations from the German and I can assure you that you won't recognize the English common names they use because they are simply translations from the German common names.

[mmyers]

The "Black onyx percula" is a color morph of the true percula (A .percula). These are not the common all black and white A. ocellaris. Yes, it is a "rare" clownfish and they are pricy. A pair of them at Inland Aquatics, LiveAquaria etc. are running $200. Some breeders are selling them for ~$70 each. I believe they were originally developed at C-quest and were given the name "black onyx". To be a Black Onyx perc, the black must completely uninterrupted between all three bars, essentially leaving an orange face and maybe an orange tail and dorsal fin. Some argument on the dorsal fin being black or orange though. It may be possible to come across one at the lfs that would be cheaper because the lfs or their distributor didn't know what they had their hands on.

[Arctic Fox]

Yeah, I agree, it's pretty important to learn the scientific name for these critters, I know I'm guilty of using common names a lot, but aren't we all sometimes right?

Check this out:
Do a search for a Scopas Tang
You'll find 2 fish, a jet black one and a brown/or silver one
the Jet black one is Zebrasoma rostratum, and he'll run you about $300+or- depending on where you get him from. I'm not sure on the scientific name for the brown/silver one but he'll run you between $20-40 depending on where you get him from. In pet stores you'll often see the brown/silver ones labeled as Scopas Tangs, False Scopas Tangs, or Brown Tang, and you'll see the Jet black ones labeled as Long Nose Black, Jet Black, or Scopas Tang, but they're obviously 2 different fishes. Leads to a little bit of confusion sometimes if you tell someone that you have a scopas tang and they say "HOW ON EARTH DID YOU AFFORD ONE?!" and you're like "dude, it was 30 bucks...".

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by mmyers

The "Black onyx percula" is a color morph of the true percula (A .percula). These are not the common all black and white A. ocellaris. Yes, it is a "rare" clownfish and they are pricy. A pair of them at Inland Aquatics, LiveAquaria etc. are running $200. Some breeders are selling them for ~$70 each. I believe they were originally developed at C-quest and were given the name "black onyx".

I just checked Inland Aquatics and you're right, they have "Black Onyx" true percs listed for $149.99 a pair.

I believe that a black morph of Amphiprion percula is being captive-bred in the U.K., too.

A lady who lives only 36 miles from me has been breeding a black morph of A. ocellaris for the past five years now. She started out with wild-collected stock from the Darwin, Australia area where these are common.