[Airmotive]

<~~Embarrassed face.

Well...against my better judgement I allowed the "significant other" to press forward with some fish additions prior to the establishing of a Q tank. Naturally, the eight line wrasse brought with it those tiny white friends we know so well (ich). So here I am...scrambling to finish setting up a 29 gallon Q tank...which will now be a hospital tank. I've decided to evacuate the fish from the main tank and move them to the 29, letting the main (180 gallon) go fallow for 5 weeks.

Here's the list:
Yellow tang, eight line wrasse, pair of occelaris, yellow assessor, magenta dottyback, coral beauty, pair green chromis, green clown goby.
Yeah, I know..."In a 29?!" No choices here...I'm in disaster recovery here.

So....the advice:

Right now the plan is to dose the 29 with "Organi-Cure" (Chelated copper and formalin). Still trying to find a Cu test kit locally. Got a better med? Do tell.

I've read that the copper will destroy what little bio filtration I have in the 29; other than a 20% water change every day...any suggestions? I also have a nitra-zorb bag standing by for the impending hard cycle this tank is about to go through. How about letting the pH drop? How low and for how long can I let the pH sink? Any fish shippers out there who can address this strategy?

Last question....should I just leave the fish in the 180 tank and let them duke it out with the parasite? One of the clowns and the wrasse are already looking like they're fighting a losing battle.

Wish us luck!
JJ

[jwtrojan44]

I'd suggest against using the 29 to treat all of those fish. Leaving them to their own designs will also likely fail as the parasite will simply continue it's life cycle, becoming worse with each infestation. Tell more about the 180; how much LR, are there corals and inverts?
If it were me. I'd skip the meds altogether and try hyposalinity. Formalin is toxic to fish and really won't deal with cryptocaryon.
You can set up some cheap, adequate hospital "tanks" by purchasing some large rubbermaid storage bins. Fill them with water from the display. Add a heater and a powerhead to each, along with small filter with some cultured media. A sponge filter would suffice.
Separate the fish into a couple groups with perhaps the tang, wrasse, and dotty back in one, and the remaining fish in the other. You can perform hyposalinity which is the preferred method for treating crypto in each of the bins, leaving the display fishless for 4-5 weeks, interrupting the life cycle of the parasite.
The other option would be to place your rock and inverts in these holding bins along with the same equipment, and treat the fish in the display tank, with hyposalinity.
It's a tough spot to be in, but IMO, a quarantine tank is really not an optional piece of equipment in this hobby. Keep one up and running all the time and quarantine all fish for a minimum of three weeks prior to adding them to the display.

[Airmotive]

Thank you so very much for your advice. Unfortunately, I'm reading it the day after catching all but one fish (the dottyback) and transfering them to the 29. The 29 is sitting her next to me as I type and it really doesn't look crowded. The only full-grown specimin we have is the coral beauty...he's also the largest and most aggressive. The tang (thank God) is still a baby (2").

So now I'm looking at cycling the tank "on the fly"....That leads my back to my original question. Will a chelated copper med prevent the tank from cycling at all? Should I force the pH down for a few weeks or will that cause more harm than good? I've already dosed the tank once with copper. I'm definately going to hold off on the second dose and, in stead, lower the SG down to 1.015 or thereabouts. I've raised the temp to 82F as well.

Pulling all the rock and iverts out of the 180 and putting them into 50 gallon plastic barrells was under consideration for a few minutes...but was voted down for good reason. Several of the fish we have have an amazing ability to completely dissappear into the rocks. (that's the reason the dottyback is still in the 180. Hell...we gave the clown goby up for dead over two weeks ago....he showed up last nght while we were catching the other fish!). Combine that with the sheer volume of rock and inverts and, well, moving the fish seemed a much easier route.

Blue Skies
JJ

Originally Posted by jwtrojan44

I'd suggest against using the 29 to treat all of those fish. Leaving them to their own designs will also likely fail as the parasite will simply continue it's life cycle, becoming worse with each infestation. Tell more about the 180; how much LR, are there corals and inverts?
If it were me. I'd skip the meds altogether and try hyposalinity. Formalin is toxic to fish and really won't deal with cryptocaryon.
You can set up some cheap, adequate hospital "tanks" by purchasing some large rubbermaid storage bins. Fill them with water from the display. Add a heater and a powerhead to each, along with small filter with some cultured media. A sponge filter would suffice.
Separate the fish into a couple groups with perhaps the tang, wrasse, and dotty back in one, and the remaining fish in the other. You can perform hyposalinity which is the preferred method for treating crypto in each of the bins, leaving the display fishless for 4-5 weeks, interrupting the life cycle of the parasite.
The other option would be to place your rock and inverts in these holding bins along with the same equipment, and treat the fish in the display tank, with hyposalinity.
It's a tough spot to be in, but IMO, a quarantine tank is really not an optional piece of equipment in this hobby. Keep one up and running all the time and quarantine all fish for a minimum of three weeks prior to adding them to the display.

[jwtrojan44]

Originally Posted by Airmotive

Thank you so very much for your advice. Unfortunately, I'm reading it the day after catching all but one fish (the dottyback) and transfering them to the 29. The 29 is sitting her next to me as I type and it really doesn't look crowded. The only full-grown specimin we have is the coral beauty...he's also the largest and most aggressive. The tang (thank God) is still a baby (2").

So now I'm looking at cycling the tank "on the fly"....That leads my back to my original question. Will a chelated copper med prevent the tank from cycling at all? Should I force the pH down for a few weeks or will that cause more harm than good? I've already dosed the tank once with copper. I'm definately going to hold off on the second dose and, in stead, lower the SG down to 1.015 or thereabouts. I've raised the temp to 82F as well.

Pulling all the rock and iverts out of the 180 and putting them into 50 gallon plastic barrells was under consideration for a few minutes...but was voted down for good reason. Several of the fish we have have an amazing ability to completely dissappear into the rocks. (that's the reason the dottyback is still in the 180. Hell...we gave the clown goby up for dead over two weeks ago....he showed up last nght while we were catching the other fish!). Combine that with the sheer volume of rock and inverts and, well, moving the fish seemed a much easier route.

Blue Skies
JJ

Okay, no real poblem with all of the fish in one tank. I would have been concerned about aggression and crowding. I'm not sure about the copper retarding the cycle. I personally don't like copper for treating crypto. Some fish, tangs angels and butterflies are more sensitive to it and often don't tolerate it well.
If you've used water from the display to fill the QT, simply monitor the parameters closley and do water changes daily to keep ammonia from becoming a problem. I'd toss a small HOT filter on there to get it going.
Raising the temperature will speed up the life cycle of the parasite but lowering the sg to 1.015 will actually not help much. Hyposalinity requires the sg to be at the target number of 1.009. Studies have shown the parasite can survive at sg's higher than this. An accurate measuring device (read refractometer or glass lab grade hydrometer) is essential as the plastic swing arm hydrometers are usually off by a few ppts. You want to keep pH at normal levels during the procedure and it will drop at lower salinites so buffering might be necessary.
Have you considered hyposalinity as a treatment option? It's safe and effective if administered properly and all bony fish tolerate it quite well.
hth.

[orion25]

I have been thinking about a hospital tank as well. I was thinking about setting up a Marineland Eclipse 5gal tank in my spare bedroom to acclimate new fish in as well as give me something to look at while I am on the computer. It will not really be a "hospital tank" because I will not treat it with copper and such. Just acclimate new fish. If I need to medicate I will get a 10g tank, HOB filter, and a couple of PVC tubes. The Eclipse is only $40 at Wal-Mart. Has anyone had any success with the eclipse in the Nano role? Of course I will not have a skimmer in it but it will have a layer of sand and a couple or LR pieces.