[Ninong]

I just received my copy of what was advertised as Reef Fishes, Volume 2: A Guide to Their Identification, Behavior and Captive Care, Author: Michael, Scott W., Hardcover 624 pages, ISBN 1890087335, suggested retail price $89.95.

I placed my order with Wal-Mart.com back on Jan. 12, 2004. They originally promised to ship on Jan. 28, 2004 but that date was changed twice.

Today I received a copy of a book titled: Basslets, Dottybacks & Hawkfishes by the same author. This book has the exact same ISBN number that was claimed for Reef Fishes, Volume 2. There is only one little bitty problem here. This book is only 296 pages instead of the advertised 624 pages.

I placed the new book next to my copy of Reef Fishes, Volume 1 and measured both of them. Volume One measures 1.5" thick and this book that they are passing off as Volume Two measures only 0.75" thick including the heavy hard cover.

Furthermore, Microcosm Books has not changed the ad copy on their website. They still show Reef Fishes, Volume 2 as a 624 page book:

Reef Fishes Volume 2
A Guide to Their Identification,
Behavior, and Captive Care
By Scott W. Michael
624 pages, Coming Soon
Hardcover$89.95

http://www.microcosm-books.com/html/ComingSoon.html



To say that I am disappointed is a gross understatement.

There is no question that this is Volume Two in "Scott Michael's authoritative Reef Fishes Series" because they say so right inside the cover of the new book. They also say that the series is now SIX VOLUMES. That's strange! The fish that they say are included in the new volumes are the same ones that are listed on Preface page 11 of Reef Fishes, Volume One as being included in Volumes Two and Three. You see, according to Preface page 11 of the original volume, all of those fish were covered in TWO VOLUMES. I believe they planned a Volume Four as an index volume.

What the publisher has done is divided the planned Volume 2 and Volume 3 into FOUR NEW books instead of just two.

The cover photo on the new book is not the same as the cover photo on the publisher's website. According to Wal-Mart the price is the same. I am disputing that point with them since they advertised a 624-page book and sent me a 296-page book.

None of this should be taken as a knock on the author or the book. What I am ranting about is the fact that they not only delayed publication for years beyond what they originally planned but they downsized the product without any notice whatsoever. There is still nothing on the publisher's website about any upcoming volume called Basslets, Dottybacks & Hawkfishes, 296 pages. They are still touting Reef Fishes, Volume 2, 624 pages!!!

[RayPollett]

Originally Posted by Ninong

I just received my copy of what was advertised as Reef Fishes, Volume 2: A Guide to Their Identification, Behavior and Captive Care, Author: Michael, Scott W., Hardcover 624 pages, ISBN 1890087335, suggested retail price $89.95.

I placed my order with Wal-Mart.com back on Jan. 12, 2004. They originally promised to ship on Jan. 28, 2004 but that date was changed twice.

Today I received a copy of a book titled: Basslets, Dottybacks & Hawkfishes by the same author. This book has the exact same ISBN number that was claimed for Reef Fishes, Volume 2. There is only one little bitty problem here. This book is only 296 pages instead of the advertised 624 pages.

I placed the new book next to my copy of Reef Fishes, Volume 1 and measured both of them. Volume One measures 1.5" thick and this book that they are passing off as Volume Two measures only 0.75" thick including the heavy hard cover.

Furthermore, Microcosm Books has not changed the ad copy on their website. They still show Reef Fishes, Volume 2 as a 624 page book:

Reef Fishes Volume 2
A Guide to Their Identification,
Behavior, and Captive Care
By Scott W. Michael
624 pages, Coming Soon
Hardcover$89.95

http://www.microcosm-books.com/html/ComingSoon.html



To say that I am disappointed is a gross understatement.

There is no question that this is Volume Two in "Scott Michael's authoritative Reef Fishes Series" because they say so right inside the cover of the new book. They also say that the series is now SIX VOLUMES. That's strange! The fish that they say are included in the new volumes are the same ones that are listed on Preface page 11 of Reef Fishes, Volume One as being included in Volumes Two and Three. You see, according to Preface page 11 of the original volume, all of those fish were covered in TWO VOLUMES. I believe they planned a Volume Four as an index volume.

What the publisher has done is divided the planned Volume 2 and Volume 3 into FOUR NEW books instead of just two.

The cover photo on the new book is not the same as the cover photo on the publisher's website. According to Wal-Mart the price is the same. I am disputing that point with them since they advertised a 624-page book and sent me a 296-page book.

None of this should be taken as a knock on the author or the book. What I am ranting about is the fact that they not only delayed publication for years beyond what they originally planned but they downsized the product without any notice whatsoever. There is still nothing on the publisher's website about any upcoming volume called Basslets, Dottybacks & Hawkfishes, 296 pages. They are still touting Reef Fishes, Volume 2, 624 pages!!!

Thanks for the heads up. I'd send it back and demand a full refund with shipping both ways.

Ray

[Ninong]

I just checked Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...689142-4860125 and they are listing the new book under its correct name but they are claiming that it only has 272 pages!!! I can assure you it has 296 pages.

The suggested retail price is the same $89.95 as originally advertised for the 624-page Reef Fishes, Volume 2.

Notice that the publication date is given as May 2004 (today is the first day of May 2004) and yet the book has already received very favorable reviews. Probably from "friends of the family."

I also checked Wal-Mart.com http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...3A3920%3A28377 and they show it under the new title even though they invoiced me under the old title. They, too, claim that it has only 272 pages and that the price is the same as the original price for the advertised 624-page book. They show the publication date as April 2004.

Volume One was published in 1998 and it was "Printed and bound in U.S.A. by World Color Book Services."

Volume Two was published in 2004 and it was "Printed and bound in China."

Hey, what's up with that? I thought we were shipping all our jobs to China and India so that the products would be cheaper?

Thank God it wasn't printed and bound by Halliburton!

P.S. -- Based on their publication schedule so far I will be 90 years old by the time I receive Volume Six!!!

[RayPollett]

I find it so objectionable I'll pass on buying it or any other Microcosm Books.

Ray

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by RayPollett

I find it so objectionable I'll pass on buying it or any other Microcosm Books.

Ray

I find it disappointing but if I took that attitude I'd never be able to buy anything in this hobby. I'll keep the book but make sure that my "disappointment" is known.

Microcosm & TFH are among the very few publishers in this country publishing anything at all in this field. There is at least one excellent British publisher and a couple of good German publishers (Springer and Birgit, Schmettkamp, Verlag) but the translations from the German and Russian are terrible to say the least. Fossa & Nilsen's series (published by Birgit, Schmettkamp, Verlag) has fewer typos and tortured syntax than most but some, like Sorokin's books (published by Springer), are almost incomprehensible. Coral Reef Ecology has a minimum of 2,000 misspellings and English that is almost impossible to understand. That was an English translation from the German edition of a work that was originally written in Russian.

[Reefland]

Ninong,

When I go back to work this week I'll check our stock and see what I can find for you at Amazon.

Scott Z.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefland

Ninong,

When I go back to work this week I'll check our stock and see what I can find for you at Amazon.

Scott Z.

Do you have any "damaged" books that would otherwise have to be thrown out?

[Penguin]

That IS disappointing. I'm seeing this trend a lot lately--manufacturers cutting back significantly on the size/volume of their products but keeping the price the same. And doing it quietly with the hope that the average consumer either won't notice or won't care.

I don't own Reef Fishes vol. 1, and now I don't think I'll be getting vols. 2 and beyond, unless the softcover versions are much cheaper. 90 bucks is way too steep for me. I think I'll wait for vol. 2 of the Fenner/Calfo series and hope that publisher doesn't pull some similar nonsense.

[Reefland]

We have a lot of damaged books but do not offer them to the public.

manufacturers cutting back significantly on the size/volume of their products but keeping the price the same

I guess the flip side of that are publishers that make books so darn big and heavy you can't even lift it up, more less sit down and read it.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...928394-2012056

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Reefland

I guess the flip side of that are publishers that make books so darn big and heavy you can't even lift it up, more less sit down and read it.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...928394-2012056

75 lbs.?!

[Reefland]

I consider this book a coffee table book.


Not one you set on your coffee table, but one you use as your coffee table.

[Ninong]

If you check the various online booksellers you will discover that Volume 3 in this series, Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes, which is scheduled for release next month, has a publisher's suggested retail price of $44.95 and according to the information provided by the publisher it has 272 pages, exactly the same number as the publisher claims the newly released Volume 2 is supposed to have.

Yet those same online booksellers are still showing the newly released Volume 2 Basslets, Dottybacks & Hawkfishes as having a list price of $89.95.

I have sent emails requesting confirmation of the CORRECT publisher's suggested list price to both of the co-publishers: T.F.H. Publications, Inc. and Microcosm, Ltd.

[Ninong]

I received this in an email a few minutes ago from the publisher:


The correct prices are as follows:

Basslets, Dottybacks & Hawkfishes - $89.95
Anglefishes & Butterflyfishes - $44.95



Jane Frame
Customer Service / TFH Publications Inc.
1 TFH Plaza, 3rd and Union Avenues
Neptune City NJ 07753
Ph: 732-988-8400 Ext 117
Fx: 732-988-5466
Email: Jframe@tfh.com

[Ninong]

Dear Ms. Frame:

Thank you for your reply; however, I find it strange that these two books are exactly the same size and represent the second and third volumes in a series and yet one is priced twice as high as the other? The originally advertised Volume Two in this series was advertised as having 624-pages with a list price of $89.95 but that book never materialized. Instead the publisher cut the planned Volume Two into the new 272-page Volume Two and 272-page Volume Three and named them "Basslets, Dottybacks & Hawkfishes" and "Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes" respectively.

Why would one book be twice as much as the other when they are identical in size and the second and third volumes in a 6-volume series and they are being released only one month apart?

Thanks for your help. I really am puzzled by this and wonder if perhaps there is an error in pricing that has not yet been addressed.

Regards,

[zhenya]

Well,

It is disapointing becouse of all the confusion.However, pricing is something that market comands and with this hobby balooning in the 90's I'm not surprized at all that a 272 page book could cost 40-90 bux. Especially something as specific as Reef Fishes or Marine Invertabrates books.If how to keep a reeftank bibles could cost up to 30-40 dollars then those other,specified books, might as well.
George, since TFH is not far from me,do you want me to take a ride over and ask them in person?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by zhenya

George, since TFH is not far from me,do you want me to take a ride over and ask them in person?

The phone numbers are right there in my post, you could call them if you like and see if they have an explanation for why one volume is priced twice as high as the other when they are identical in size, part of a series and released only a month apart. Maybe their logic is different that ours and we could all get a good laugh hearing it.

[Ninong]

I believe the correct price is $44.95. Based on the suggestions of readers and aquarium shop owners, we divided the original Volume 2 into two more affordable editions. Our web site obviously needs to be corrected—our webmaster has been off having a baby probably ought to be forgiven.

Thanks for pointing out the confusion.

James Lawrence

I replied to Mr. Lawrence informing him that T.F.H. Publications, Inc. (co-publisher) is still claiming the correct list price for Basslets, Dottybacks & Hawkfishes is $89.95 and that is the information they have provided to the online booksellers. I asked him to please look into this pricing confusion since it is his belief that both Volume 2 and Volume 3 were to be priced at $44.95.

[Penguin]

What a mess...

Hopefully you'll be able to get the price difference refunded, if the correct price really is $44.95, as would seem logical.

[Penguin]

I wonder if anyone else pre-ordered the book and was seemingly overcharged.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I wonder if anyone else pre-ordered the book and was seemingly overcharged.

You didn't have to pre-order it to be "seemingly overcharged,"

if you were to order it right now you would be very much overcharged because every one of the online booksellers is basing their retail price on a publisher's suggested list price of $89.95.



I'm waiting to see how long it takes them to figure this out and correct things. I will need the publisher to contact all of the online booksellers, especially Wal-Mart.com, to give them the correct pricing before I and any other "victims" can request refunds from our respective merchants.